But we’re not talking specifically about protecting children here, I’d agree with you that less guns are better to those ends. For fighting fascism though? It took a lot of gun deaths to unseat Hitler and Mussolini
Sure in a hypothetical alternate reality where the only way to defeat evil is to shoot it. Unfortunately we live in the real world and it just means more dead people.
Maybe I’m feeling cornered, vulnerable, angry, as is often the case with these things. But how do you suggest we protect ourselves and our allies from an evil that strengthens itself off of your sickness, your hunger, your homelessness, and has absolutely no qualms about meeting you with violence and coming up with an excuse later?
Bringing a good argument to a gunfight is unfortunately not a winning strategy. When the fascists have no qualms shooting you simply for being yourself, no amount of peaceful organizing is going to stop them. Peaceful protests and organizing only work because they have the implicit threat of violence if the demands are not met.
Yeah because that is what Martin Luther King Jr. would have wanted. We also have to ignore all the peaceful demonstrations throughout history to believe your line of reasoning.
I totally get you live in a fantasy world where moar guns are the only solution. I guess the good guys just magically kill the bad guys. Glad we got that all worked out.
“If the Negro succumbs to the temptation of using violence in his struggle for justice, unborn generations will be the recipients of a long and desolate night of bitterness, and his chief legacy to the future will be an endless rain of meaningless chaos.”
I heard his words and understood the significance. You pretend he would support a literal genocide on the American people through gun violence. It is sickening really.
Would you like to investigate what the Black Panthers did? The number of times they shot their guns in anger is very small, but having guns was integral to their strategy of protecting the rights of black people being harassed by police. They were so effective that they changed to rules to prevent them from using guns the way they did. There were little more than 100 Black Panthers around at the time.
Perhaps you’d like to have a broader view of history beyond peaceful protests? Peaceful and violent means of protest rarely exist alone, and are rarely effective alone.
India would like a word. I have a very broad view. The difference is people don’t always have to murder each other. In fact, murdering each other rarely brings about the kind a change we need in our society.
On today, the day we celebrate MLK Jr. maybe you could give peace a fucking chance. Tomorrow you can go back to being murderous gun nutter.
This book sometimes gets framed as “this proves non-violent protest is always better”, but its text is far more nuanced than that. For any peaceful group that succeeds, you can find a more violent group working for the same goals. This is so consistent that making an academic case that peaceful protest works in isolation is an impossible task. For MLK, it was groups like the Black Panthers. For Gandhi, it was the Indian National Army.
Fascists would very much like it if you swallowed the idea that peaceful protest on its own is sufficient.
On today, the day we celebrate MLK Jr. maybe you could give peace a fucking chance.
So if we come back tomorrow, do we get to argue without this shield around bad facts?
Why stop there, surely there is something worse. Perhaps a personal nuclear weapon. Nothing too big of course, but just big enough to let’s say make everyone regret having messed with you.
Think what a civil society would develop if everyone had one of these. On a side note, I am taking investments on a hot new uranium mine prospect.
What is the right time though. Would it be on a Friday for maximum shock or on a Monday so the news would have all week to discuss it.
And who are these people who would sing the praises. Most of all what did Mar a Lago do to deserve this. Maybe they hovered their finger over the “button” looking menacingly at you.
But yes, we all like noble deeds and to be known for centuries sounds great. Have you ever thought of opening up your own suicide bomber school.
You, and apparently the mods of this community, need to learn the difference between advocating violence for the sake of violence, and violence as a tool of survival and self defense when others are using violence against you when all options for peace have failed.
If someone is trying to kill you, are you just going to let them do it? You’ve tried talking to them and they’re still going to kill you. What are you going to do?
Not sure you realise how close you are to some serious trouble over there. I’m a left leaning European and I think you need to strap up. Genuinely you’ll wish you had in a couple of years.
Meh, the truth is we lost a Vietnam of Americans to gun deaths this year. 50k people dead. That happened every year now the last twenty years
That is one million Americans dead. Please tell all those dead people and all the people who lost their loved ones that we need these guns to protect against facism.
We have moar guns than any other nation. We have moar fucking guns than people. Yet we are surrounded by fascists and need moar guns!
I mean at some point you just need a stupidity check.
But we’re not talking specifically about protecting children here, I’d agree with you that less guns are better to those ends. For fighting fascism though? It took a lot of gun deaths to unseat Hitler and Mussolini
Sure in a hypothetical alternate reality where the only way to defeat evil is to shoot it. Unfortunately we live in the real world and it just means more dead people.
Maybe I’m feeling cornered, vulnerable, angry, as is often the case with these things. But how do you suggest we protect ourselves and our allies from an evil that strengthens itself off of your sickness, your hunger, your homelessness, and has absolutely no qualms about meeting you with violence and coming up with an excuse later?
I would not suggest purchasing a gun if you are feeling cornered, vulnerable, and angry. Fear is the mind killer.
I would suggest reaching out to others, talking, getting political, and organizing.
Bringing a good argument to a gunfight is unfortunately not a winning strategy. When the fascists have no qualms shooting you simply for being yourself, no amount of peaceful organizing is going to stop them. Peaceful protests and organizing only work because they have the implicit threat of violence if the demands are not met.
Yeah because that is what Martin Luther King Jr. would have wanted. We also have to ignore all the peaceful demonstrations throughout history to believe your line of reasoning.
I totally get you live in a fantasy world where moar guns are the only solution. I guess the good guys just magically kill the bad guys. Glad we got that all worked out.
Dr Martin Luther King Jr bought himself an arsenal. You may not have heard about that
“If the Negro succumbs to the temptation of using violence in his struggle for justice, unborn generations will be the recipients of a long and desolate night of bitterness, and his chief legacy to the future will be an endless rain of meaningless chaos.”
I heard his words and understood the significance. You pretend he would support a literal genocide on the American people through gun violence. It is sickening really.
And black people have such a great time in the states today!
Would you like to investigate what the Black Panthers did? The number of times they shot their guns in anger is very small, but having guns was integral to their strategy of protecting the rights of black people being harassed by police. They were so effective that they changed to rules to prevent them from using guns the way they did. There were little more than 100 Black Panthers around at the time.
Perhaps you’d like to have a broader view of history beyond peaceful protests? Peaceful and violent means of protest rarely exist alone, and are rarely effective alone.
India would like a word. I have a very broad view. The difference is people don’t always have to murder each other. In fact, murdering each other rarely brings about the kind a change we need in our society.
On today, the day we celebrate MLK Jr. maybe you could give peace a fucking chance. Tomorrow you can go back to being murderous gun nutter.
There were violent groups working for India’s independence against the British.
Which brings me to this: https://cup.columbia.edu/book/why-civil-resistance-works/9780231156837
This book sometimes gets framed as “this proves non-violent protest is always better”, but its text is far more nuanced than that. For any peaceful group that succeeds, you can find a more violent group working for the same goals. This is so consistent that making an academic case that peaceful protest works in isolation is an impossible task. For MLK, it was groups like the Black Panthers. For Gandhi, it was the Indian National Army.
Fascists would very much like it if you swallowed the idea that peaceful protest on its own is sufficient.
So if we come back tomorrow, do we get to argue without this shield around bad facts?
I also wouldn’t advise a gun. Explosives are way more effective.
Why stop there, surely there is something worse. Perhaps a personal nuclear weapon. Nothing too big of course, but just big enough to let’s say make everyone regret having messed with you.
Think what a civil society would develop if everyone had one of these. On a side note, I am taking investments on a hot new uranium mine prospect.
My friend, if you nuke mar a Lago at the right time people will sing songs of your noble deeds for centuries to come.
What is the right time though. Would it be on a Friday for maximum shock or on a Monday so the news would have all week to discuss it.
And who are these people who would sing the praises. Most of all what did Mar a Lago do to deserve this. Maybe they hovered their finger over the “button” looking menacingly at you.
But yes, we all like noble deeds and to be known for centuries sounds great. Have you ever thought of opening up your own suicide bomber school.
When trump is home and preferably has musk round for tea.
When diplomacy fails, you’re left with two choices:
Violence or giving up.
Diplomacy is proving to be ineffective. That leaves only the two above options.
Tell that to India. I mean there are so many examples that prove you are full of shit it ain’t funny.
Let’s be real here. You just want people to be killed.
Removed by mod
Oh yes, threats of violence is what our society needs. The immaturity of your mind is astonishing.
At any rate, Happy MLK Jr day!
You, and apparently the mods of this community, need to learn the difference between advocating violence for the sake of violence, and violence as a tool of survival and self defense when others are using violence against you when all options for peace have failed.
If someone is trying to kill you, are you just going to let them do it? You’ve tried talking to them and they’re still going to kill you. What are you going to do?
Not sure you realise how close you are to some serious trouble over there. I’m a left leaning European and I think you need to strap up. Genuinely you’ll wish you had in a couple of years.
In this case evil is coming to shoot you.
Trumpers killed exactly zero gays today. Meanwhile over one hundred Americans died of gun violence including a couple of children.
This is the difference between your fantasy and my reality.
You expected it to happen immediately?
The “reality” where fascism backs down when you ask it nice?
There is a difference between a hundred dead bodies everyday and your revenge fantasy.
Don’t even pretend you actually care about human life when we have a thousand dead children to lay on the altar of moar guns every year.
Don’t pretend you care about fascism if you’re setting aside proven tools to deal with it.
Meh, the truth is we lost a Vietnam of Americans to gun deaths this year. 50k people dead. That happened every year now the last twenty years
That is one million Americans dead. Please tell all those dead people and all the people who lost their loved ones that we need these guns to protect against facism.
We have moar guns than any other nation. We have moar fucking guns than people. Yet we are surrounded by fascists and need moar guns!
I mean at some point you just need a stupidity check.
At least 35M people died fighting the most major war against fascism. I guess that makes my cause more important.