The foundation of sex is consent. If consent (including hearing about it and discussing it) is absent, then it is torture.
And I literally mean rape and sexual assault should be considered torture, because they are and they have the same effects on the brain as classic forms of torture, and indeed both SA and rape are used as a form of torture in war. Look at the mass rapes in Ukraine. It’s not for sexual gratification, it’s to torture people, and they also happen to get off on it.
People have different boundaries around what they discuss, especially personal info. It’s important to respect that.
If you want to experience a less inhibited place, I recommend checking out a sex club.
Verbal and emotional abuse are still abuse, still count as harm, and psychological abuse is so effective it is used in psychological warfare.
Physical abuse is to physical torture, what verbal&emotional abuse are to psychological torture.
Maybe learn a little about consent so you stop harming others. I’ve already given you an example of why someone may not want to discuss sex (past trauma), but also, given your personality- they may find YOU distressing to talk with and not a safe person. And by your own words, you aren’t.
Lusty, an adjective, isn’t equivalent to describing sex acts that may trigger people, or asking them to engage in sexual conversation irl for the sake of normalization when they may not want to.
Why is consent and respecting people’s boundaries so hard for you all? Why do you need to try to find ways around consent? So curious, why are you doing this?
And you know, I do wish harm on you, as much harm as you put on others. May you be treated as consensually as you treat others. My curse to you and all reading this.
Stop bellitling your own behaviour. You know what your username refers to whole you ignore it. You are raping me and everyone else here. Why is it so hard for you to believe that your own behaviour can be out of line? Why is it that your abuse is not abuse while the rest of must think about our selfs?
How so? How is the adjective Lusty, equivalent to forcing women and others to speak about sex when they don’t want to and feel uncomfortable about talking about it?
You consented to read and interact with their comments at the moment you signed up and logged in. From then on whatever happened, you chose and made it happen
I’m fine with you experiencing emotional pain like guilt for things you’ve done wrong. It’s not my job to manage your emotions anyway.
You can’t demand behavior from me - that’s not a boundary (hint hint).
It’s too bad arguments trigger you, but that’s not a trigger I am willing to step around much as simple conflict is part of communities and is not equivalent to discussing sex with people beyond their boundaries in any way. You’re of course welcome to leave the conversation or block me - enforce your boundaries. Which is what people are doing when they don’t talk to you about sex, you’re violating their boundaries and they distance themselves from you as a natural consequence. You have the same options here as the other scenario of someone being given a panic attack because you have to talk about sex in a way that violates their boundaries. That being said, irl there is harassment, so even the law understands things like emotional boundaries. Harassment doesn’t extend to answering someone back on an open forum, though.
It’s so funny, men who are mad women won’t talk about sex with them and then they do stuff like this. I never have the issues you all have, and it’s because it’s a you thing in how you treat others. I just… lol.
No, and your sex ed is incomplete if you don’t understand this.
No, not every activity is consensual. What consent is, is a deeper question and interaction than what you’re making it out to be.
Consent is the foundation of sexual education and sexual interactions.
Freedom of speech is separate, and no, you don’t “need the consent of everyone in the room to talk about something,” but then you’re operating outside of consent, and you may violate emotional boundaries. That includes triggering survivors who may not have expected you to violate social norms and who would have told you, “hey, I don’t like talking about sex in front of people because I get panic attacks.”
These interactions, being between more than 1 person, require the input of the other people. It’s not a great look to force people into accepting sex as you see it or want it.
That includes triggering survivors who may not have expected you to violate social norms and who would have told you, “hey, I don’t like talking about sex in front of people because I get panic attacks.”
That’s true but that’s also true for any number of topics. This is a general “how/when do I talk about potentially triggering topics” issue and has nothing to do with sexual consent.
You said there’s many that are equivalent in the trauma and triggering. You can’t even name one other?
The one I can think of - war - is quite obvious you should check in with people and just say, “I know this is a topic that can be tough to talk about, do you mind?” Eg my friend’s entire family overseas just died to the war in Ukraine/Russia. Or someone’s dad may have died in a war. Etc.
So go on, name an example, just 1, of a topic that’s equivalent and explain why you wouldn’t want to just check in and make sure the person you’re talking with is comfortable.
Heck, asking you for an example of your own claim was apparently triggering af, maybe use that. Is this as traumatizing as war or sexual abuse? Giving an example?
Friend, you are not getting what is happening here. We are in agreement that there are topics that might need some checking in if anyone is uncomfortable with it. That includes sex, that includes war, it includes health, it includes childhood stories.
I am aware of that, you are aware of that, you are just being unnecessarily confrontational. To which I say: sodd off.
No, you all don’t want to do the very easy thing kf asking permission to discuss these things because you want to sexually harass women into conversations they don’t want to have.
My dude, you set up the strawman argument of speech in a conversation about sexual consent. They were just trying to explain how they’re not the same thing.
No. I reacted to someone claiming that hearing about sex needs the hearing parties consent, the same as sex needs consent which I don’t agree with.
Talking about sex needs to be done with some caution to not upset others, like many other topics. It’s different from the consent needed for engaging in sexual activities with someone.
Talking about sex needs to be done with some caution to not upset others
This is literally what I’m saying. Upsetting others means you are violating their emotional boundaries. If they do not consent to the interaction, then they might get mad.
It’s literally so easy to say, “hey, I’m going to bring up an adult topic, anyone uncomfortable with that?” And then if anyone says yes, say nevermind. its so easy and you all bellyaching like its a hike up a mountain is WEIRD.
That’s not the issue and you are failing to understand that. I agree with you. But the first comment said that that is the same form and level of consent needed that is needed for sex and that’s just not true.
It is. Asking someone, “Do you mind if I talk about this?” is cognitively and calorically the same as , “Can I kiss you?” “Do you like this?” “Is this okay?”
The damage done by unwanted sexual talk can be significant- eg Trump saying he and Ivanka have sex in common on Wendy Williams, or how he’d be dating her if she wasn’t his daughter on Howard Stern.
This is different than physical sexual abuse which not only has psychological harm (as before), it also has physical harm.
In general, having a light hearted conversation with friends whose general boundaries you’re already aware of, isn’t a big deal, just like saying “hey, everyone is cool with this right?” is also not a big deal to actually do but is still important.
Like I’m getting all this pushback for recommending people consider saying “You all good with this?” Lol
This makes sense to me. The idea that discussion of sex is itself a sexual act seems like it muddies the topic.
There’s certainly ways of discussing sex that require consent, like erotic roleplaying or something where you’re involving the other person directly, but that’s not what the original post is about.
If any discussion of sex is taboo in public situations it leads to exactly the sort of issues OP is trying to reduce, where the norms of silence act as a shield for abusers.
The idea that discussion of sex is itself a sexual act seems like it muddies the topic.
If it wasn’t a sex act, then phone sex workers wouldn’t exist, erotica wouldn’t exist.
There’s certainly ways of discussing sex that require consent, like erotic roleplaying
It’s called negotiations or initiation. These are abstract ways people talk about sex more clinically to see if people mesh or what kinks they have. People ABSOLUTELY get off to ANY discussion about sex. And that is a huge part of why some people only want to share thar side of themselves with safe people, especially if they aren’t an exhibitionist.
If any discussion of sex is taboo in public situations it leads to exactly the sort of issues OP is trying to reduce, where the norms of silence act as a shield for abusers.
Again, I assert it isn’t TABOO, but PRIVATE/PERSONAL. Just like my medical history isn’t taboo, it’s private and personal. It’s emotionally invasive to discuss sex with others for some people.
What shields abusers, ironically, is not discussing consent and not putting consent first. Also, the belief that abuse is automatically contagious- eg the belief a child who has been abused will go on to abuse another - which makes the victim feel like they ARE a monster like their abuser and makes them afraid to admit the abuse to others.
Abuse is literally handled by consent and boundary discussions, and additionally with straightforward biology and public health info (STIs are a sign of sexual abuse as well, via germ warfare and usually a lack of access to healthcare).
I talk with some friends about sex, and some friends not so much. I have friends who get stressed talking about anal, and one friend who gets extremely disturbed whenever someone brings up licking food off bodies as a sex act (she was tricked as a young child to do this).
As a Dominatrix, I have met people with such a wide variety of desires and pasts and traumas, that I think it’s best, if you want to have happy healthy discussions about sex, to just say something chill to make sure everyone is comfortable. There is just so much variety in the world and you have NO idea what kinks someone might have.
Ofc people make mistakes, they trigger others, I’m not suggesting the cops come out. I’m just pointing out that it is abuse, harmful, and that your friends may feel like healing from these interactions isn’t really worth being around you anymore. Because that’s the decision they are making if you trigger them and don’t care- how to enforce their boundaries.
If it wasn’t a sex act, then phone sex workers wouldn’t exist, erotica wouldn’t exist.
There are a lot of things that aren’t always a sex act but can be in the right circumstances, arguably most things.
Again, I assert it isn’t TABOO, but PRIVATE/PERSONAL. Just like my medical history isn’t taboo, it’s private and personal.
Do you think it’s important to get consent from people before sharing your medical history?
Regardless, it’s possible to discuss sex in ways that aren’t as private as medical history; it’s a common element in comedy, theater, and art.
What shields abusers, ironically, is not discussing consent and not putting consent first.
Multiple things can shield abusers. Consent and discussion of it is absolutely foremost, but if sex is taboo it makes conversation about sexual consent much rarer and less organic.
Any topic can make people uncomfortable, sex, religion, politics, death; all things to avoid in polite company, but they’re also a big part of life and should be discussed freely imo.
Should have been angry? What? Do you understand what a boundary is?
Like this is the chain of discussion:
-Sex should he normalized
-Sex must have consent as its foundation, including discussions with your friends, because it’s not a norm (per OP own admission it is taboo! Although I argue it is private&personal rather than taboo) and may trigger people withs equal abuse histories, and if you want to be in a space where that IS the norm, you can try sex clubs
-You then take that to apply to ALL discussions on a discussion board, to say that I have to cater to your feelings so you don’t have to be concerned about consent with others - like, come on. I hope you do feel bad for this garbage take, it seems like you deliberately and maliciously want to blur consent lines particularly sexually and have practice doing so
Yeah, it’s not normal, and not everyone should react that way. But something did happen, and I wonder if I’m supposed to be angry no matter what? Is there something wrong with me if I’m not?
I don’t manage your feelings. Why are you asking me if you’re supposed to be angry? How tf would I know? It’s your limbic system, your boundaries, your reaction.
The foundation of sex is consent. If consent (including hearing about it and discussing it) is absent, then it is torture.
And I literally mean rape and sexual assault should be considered torture, because they are and they have the same effects on the brain as classic forms of torture, and indeed both SA and rape are used as a form of torture in war. Look at the mass rapes in Ukraine. It’s not for sexual gratification, it’s to torture people, and they also happen to get off on it.
People have different boundaries around what they discuss, especially personal info. It’s important to respect that.
If you want to experience a less inhibited place, I recommend checking out a sex club.
People talking about sex is not torture. Get a grip.
It is if it’s not consensual.
Verbal and emotional abuse are still abuse, still count as harm, and psychological abuse is so effective it is used in psychological warfare.
Physical abuse is to physical torture, what verbal&emotional abuse are to psychological torture.
Maybe learn a little about consent so you stop harming others. I’ve already given you an example of why someone may not want to discuss sex (past trauma), but also, given your personality- they may find YOU distressing to talk with and not a safe person. And by your own words, you aren’t.
You are torturing me with your username. Why do you want to harm me and the rest of Lemmy?
Lusty, an adjective, isn’t equivalent to describing sex acts that may trigger people, or asking them to engage in sexual conversation irl for the sake of normalization when they may not want to.
Why is consent and respecting people’s boundaries so hard for you all? Why do you need to try to find ways around consent? So curious, why are you doing this?
And you know, I do wish harm on you, as much harm as you put on others. May you be treated as consensually as you treat others. My curse to you and all reading this.
Because guess what, self defense isn’t abuse.
Stop bellitling your own behaviour. You know what your username refers to whole you ignore it. You are raping me and everyone else here. Why is it so hard for you to believe that your own behaviour can be out of line? Why is it that your abuse is not abuse while the rest of must think about our selfs?
What?
Haha was about to say the same thing, they be riding that high horse forgetting their roots
How so? How is the adjective Lusty, equivalent to forcing women and others to speak about sex when they don’t want to and feel uncomfortable about talking about it?
You consented to read and interact with their comments at the moment you signed up and logged in. From then on whatever happened, you chose and made it happen
Argumentative comments trigger me, please stop torturing me. Ask for consent before speaking in this shared space.
I’m fine with you experiencing emotional pain like guilt for things you’ve done wrong. It’s not my job to manage your emotions anyway.
You can’t demand behavior from me - that’s not a boundary (hint hint).
It’s too bad arguments trigger you, but that’s not a trigger I am willing to step around much as simple conflict is part of communities and is not equivalent to discussing sex with people beyond their boundaries in any way. You’re of course welcome to leave the conversation or block me - enforce your boundaries. Which is what people are doing when they don’t talk to you about sex, you’re violating their boundaries and they distance themselves from you as a natural consequence. You have the same options here as the other scenario of someone being given a panic attack because you have to talk about sex in a way that violates their boundaries. That being said, irl there is harassment, so even the law understands things like emotional boundaries. Harassment doesn’t extend to answering someone back on an open forum, though.
It’s so funny, men who are mad women won’t talk about sex with them and then they do stuff like this. I never have the issues you all have, and it’s because it’s a you thing in how you treat others. I just… lol.
You know they are just pulling your leg, don’t you?
No, they aren’t. They are justifying abuse because they are abusive. Are you proud to run defense for them?
The foundation of every activity people do together is consent. That doesn’t mean I need the consent of everyone in the room to talk about something.
The second paragraph has my full support, the first one seems weird to me.
No, and your sex ed is incomplete if you don’t understand this.
No, not every activity is consensual. What consent is, is a deeper question and interaction than what you’re making it out to be.
Consent is the foundation of sexual education and sexual interactions.
Freedom of speech is separate, and no, you don’t “need the consent of everyone in the room to talk about something,” but then you’re operating outside of consent, and you may violate emotional boundaries. That includes triggering survivors who may not have expected you to violate social norms and who would have told you, “hey, I don’t like talking about sex in front of people because I get panic attacks.”
These interactions, being between more than 1 person, require the input of the other people. It’s not a great look to force people into accepting sex as you see it or want it.
That’s true but that’s also true for any number of topics. This is a general “how/when do I talk about potentially triggering topics” issue and has nothing to do with sexual consent.
Which other topics? List some
You are actually asking me if there are other topics that might trigger people besides sex? Sod off
You said there’s many that are equivalent in the trauma and triggering. You can’t even name one other?
The one I can think of - war - is quite obvious you should check in with people and just say, “I know this is a topic that can be tough to talk about, do you mind?” Eg my friend’s entire family overseas just died to the war in Ukraine/Russia. Or someone’s dad may have died in a war. Etc.
So go on, name an example, just 1, of a topic that’s equivalent and explain why you wouldn’t want to just check in and make sure the person you’re talking with is comfortable.
Heck, asking you for an example of your own claim was apparently triggering af, maybe use that. Is this as traumatizing as war or sexual abuse? Giving an example?
Friend, you are not getting what is happening here. We are in agreement that there are topics that might need some checking in if anyone is uncomfortable with it. That includes sex, that includes war, it includes health, it includes childhood stories.
I am aware of that, you are aware of that, you are just being unnecessarily confrontational. To which I say: sodd off.
No, you all don’t want to do the very easy thing kf asking permission to discuss these things because you want to sexually harass women into conversations they don’t want to have.
My dude, you set up the strawman argument of speech in a conversation about sexual consent. They were just trying to explain how they’re not the same thing.
No. I reacted to someone claiming that hearing about sex needs the hearing parties consent, the same as sex needs consent which I don’t agree with.
Talking about sex needs to be done with some caution to not upset others, like many other topics. It’s different from the consent needed for engaging in sexual activities with someone.
This is literally what I’m saying. Upsetting others means you are violating their emotional boundaries. If they do not consent to the interaction, then they might get mad.
It’s literally so easy to say, “hey, I’m going to bring up an adult topic, anyone uncomfortable with that?” And then if anyone says yes, say nevermind. its so easy and you all bellyaching like its a hike up a mountain is WEIRD.
That’s not the issue and you are failing to understand that. I agree with you. But the first comment said that that is the same form and level of consent needed that is needed for sex and that’s just not true.
It is. Asking someone, “Do you mind if I talk about this?” is cognitively and calorically the same as , “Can I kiss you?” “Do you like this?” “Is this okay?”
The damage done by unwanted sexual talk can be significant- eg Trump saying he and Ivanka have sex in common on Wendy Williams, or how he’d be dating her if she wasn’t his daughter on Howard Stern.
This is different than physical sexual abuse which not only has psychological harm (as before), it also has physical harm.
In general, having a light hearted conversation with friends whose general boundaries you’re already aware of, isn’t a big deal, just like saying “hey, everyone is cool with this right?” is also not a big deal to actually do but is still important.
Like I’m getting all this pushback for recommending people consider saying “You all good with this?” Lol
This makes sense to me. The idea that discussion of sex is itself a sexual act seems like it muddies the topic.
There’s certainly ways of discussing sex that require consent, like erotic roleplaying or something where you’re involving the other person directly, but that’s not what the original post is about.
If any discussion of sex is taboo in public situations it leads to exactly the sort of issues OP is trying to reduce, where the norms of silence act as a shield for abusers.
If it wasn’t a sex act, then phone sex workers wouldn’t exist, erotica wouldn’t exist.
It’s called negotiations or initiation. These are abstract ways people talk about sex more clinically to see if people mesh or what kinks they have. People ABSOLUTELY get off to ANY discussion about sex. And that is a huge part of why some people only want to share thar side of themselves with safe people, especially if they aren’t an exhibitionist.
Again, I assert it isn’t TABOO, but PRIVATE/PERSONAL. Just like my medical history isn’t taboo, it’s private and personal. It’s emotionally invasive to discuss sex with others for some people.
What shields abusers, ironically, is not discussing consent and not putting consent first. Also, the belief that abuse is automatically contagious- eg the belief a child who has been abused will go on to abuse another - which makes the victim feel like they ARE a monster like their abuser and makes them afraid to admit the abuse to others.
Abuse is literally handled by consent and boundary discussions, and additionally with straightforward biology and public health info (STIs are a sign of sexual abuse as well, via germ warfare and usually a lack of access to healthcare).
I talk with some friends about sex, and some friends not so much. I have friends who get stressed talking about anal, and one friend who gets extremely disturbed whenever someone brings up licking food off bodies as a sex act (she was tricked as a young child to do this).
As a Dominatrix, I have met people with such a wide variety of desires and pasts and traumas, that I think it’s best, if you want to have happy healthy discussions about sex, to just say something chill to make sure everyone is comfortable. There is just so much variety in the world and you have NO idea what kinks someone might have.
Ofc people make mistakes, they trigger others, I’m not suggesting the cops come out. I’m just pointing out that it is abuse, harmful, and that your friends may feel like healing from these interactions isn’t really worth being around you anymore. Because that’s the decision they are making if you trigger them and don’t care- how to enforce their boundaries.
There are a lot of things that aren’t always a sex act but can be in the right circumstances, arguably most things.
Do you think it’s important to get consent from people before sharing your medical history?
Regardless, it’s possible to discuss sex in ways that aren’t as private as medical history; it’s a common element in comedy, theater, and art.
Multiple things can shield abusers. Consent and discussion of it is absolutely foremost, but if sex is taboo it makes conversation about sexual consent much rarer and less organic.
Any topic can make people uncomfortable, sex, religion, politics, death; all things to avoid in polite company, but they’re also a big part of life and should be discussed freely imo.
That’s funny. I had no idea what I was consenting to, and was more than a little uncomfortable. Does that mean I should have been angry?
Should have been angry? What? Do you understand what a boundary is?
Like this is the chain of discussion:
-Sex should he normalized
-Sex must have consent as its foundation, including discussions with your friends, because it’s not a norm (per OP own admission it is taboo! Although I argue it is private&personal rather than taboo) and may trigger people withs equal abuse histories, and if you want to be in a space where that IS the norm, you can try sex clubs
-You then take that to apply to ALL discussions on a discussion board, to say that I have to cater to your feelings so you don’t have to be concerned about consent with others - like, come on. I hope you do feel bad for this garbage take, it seems like you deliberately and maliciously want to blur consent lines particularly sexually and have practice doing so
Yeah, it’s not normal, and not everyone should react that way. But something did happen, and I wonder if I’m supposed to be angry no matter what? Is there something wrong with me if I’m not?
I don’t manage your feelings. Why are you asking me if you’re supposed to be angry? How tf would I know? It’s your limbic system, your boundaries, your reaction.