Noooo, you cannot have a consistent UI/UX experience across platforms with decades old commands and tools, my imaginary grandma might get confused, also you need three IT degrees to type “man command” into a term window.
Tbf, most man files are not easy to understand.
Between man, tldr, ArchWiki, and an occasional O’Reilly book I can usually get things done, but documentation on Linux still has a lot of room for improvement.
Other than stuff like ffmpeg - which has so many features that a man page just can’t cut it; and sed - which doesn’t have a simple hyperlink saying “you go here to learn sed regexp”, most man pages do what I need them to do.
You just need to learn the basics of how the man page is organised and what the brackets in the SYNOPSIS section mean and that makes using them much easier.
I don’t mean that man itself isn’t functional, I mean the way most man pages are written isn’t clear enough to communicate how to use the programs they refer to.
I’d include the man page for man in that, and I’d encourage anyone else to look at it from the eyes of someone who can follow written instructions and ask “How does this manual/help file compare to others I have read?”.
So, for example, in the examples, it says:
man -a intro
Display, in succession, all of the available intro manual pages contained within the manual. It is possible to quit between successive displays or skip any of them.
Those two lines are the only place within man’s man page (at least the one you get from man man) that use the string “intro”. What is an intro in this context? Guess you got to run it to find out.
What is -a for? About 200+ lines down there is a two sentence explanation.
The first sentence tells you how man normally behaves, saying: “By default, man will exit after displaying the most suitable manual page it finds.” This sentence is unclear (“When does man exit after displaying the most suitable manual page it finds? When I run man ls I see the manual for ls on my screen until I press ‘q’ to ‘quit’ out of it.”) and not immediately connected to the purpose of the flag/option.
The second sentence says: “Using this option forces man to display all the manual pages with names that match the search criteria.” This is a lot clearer, and my only complaint about it can be that it’s not the first sentence in the explanation.
Yeah, one big problem of man I found was the severe lack of explanation of what the command is mainly intended to do.
It’s as if the user is expected to run the man after knowing what purpose a specific program exists for, which, I guess is what it is intended for.
I tend to rely on the package manager’s information and other similar sources for that information and man mainly for determining the exact usage.
I don’t at all expect man to be useful for someone who can just follow written instructions.
The reason being than man is just supposed to tell the user, what typy stuff needs to be done for specific functionality. And most programs tend to be doing some small thingy and not fulfilling the user’s whole requirement in one go.
Meaning, to be happy with just man, one needs to be able to create a solution for themselves by properly fitting little parts and that is already more than half way to being able to do programming.
Your man -a intro example and what followed, made me more confused than before of what you were trying to say, so I am just trying to go with the feel of it for now.
…
Maybe knowing that you can use / and then whatever string of text to find something in the man page (because it uses less to paginate the output) would be useful for some of what you said. So you can do /-a and press Enter to start searching for “-a”. And the reason for it being so far is because it is in the “OPTIONS” section.
I now feel like someone who reads a lot of legal documents would be fine with man pages. Was this format made by someone in that field?
Yeah I’m okay with the basic navigation options. The primary point is that man pages do look like they had written by someone who does not do technical writing. Whether that’s someone coming from a law background, programming, or whatever.
It’s not written for an end user who wants to know how to use the tools they have available. It will tell you what a command “does”, sometimes, but it doesn’t explain itself. It presumes a certain amount of pre-existing knowledge, or familiarity with the syntax of man writers.
For another example, the man for ls repeatedly lists options referencing “implied” entries without ever explaining what “implied” means in this context. It presupposes that the reader knows what that term means. I know what an implication is in an English class, and the antonym for “implied” is “explicit”, but in a man page? No clue. Not like there’s reference to or examples of “explicit” entries to contrast with “implied” entries. You just have to know what it means in context, or figure it out some other way.
It’s more about most people don’t have time to learn all the commands to be a sufficient enough user. I don’t want to dig through an endless stream of AI slop articles hallucinating me the commands I need for something, nor have the time and money to retreat from society “to learn it properly”. Also often the things I do is more intuitive for a button or shortcut press (I have made a card for my keyboard for F-keys) rather than typing in every time the commands.
Going CLI from GUI feels like ripping out the interiors and the dashboard from your car to make it slightly lighter the same way race cars are done, but instead you’re doing it to the family car. Sure, a lot of GUI is now a web app, because some techbro in the 2010’s wanted to collect our data for advertisement opportunities and creating the Torment Nexus free us from software installations, so we could just type www . wordprocessor . com into the URL bar of our browser instead of running the spooky and scary wordprocessor.exe after running the even spookier and scarier wordprocessor_install_1_6_5.exe. This in turn lead to a lot of student being over-reliant on HTML-like formatting for UI, and GTK and Qt not being taught in turn, which also could serve as lightweight and mostly cross-platform GUI. I even created my own GUI subsystem in my game engine for its editors.
A lot of problems caused by those on the top are being blamed on “normie users”, because we need to be “ideologically neutral”, except when it comes to “supressed” ideologies…
That varies from command to command though. man is nice if you know how to use the command but have forgotten which option does what you want. But if you have no idea how to use a program, reading e.g. man awk will not be very helpful
Noooo, you cannot have a consistent UI/UX experience across platforms with decades old commands and tools, my imaginary grandma might get confused, also you need three IT degrees to type “man command” into a term window.
Tbf, most man files are not easy to understand. Between man, tldr, ArchWiki, and an occasional O’Reilly book I can usually get things done, but documentation on Linux still has a lot of room for improvement.
Other than stuff like
ffmpeg- which has so many features that a man page just can’t cut it; andsed- which doesn’t have a simple hyperlink saying “you go here to learn sed regexp”, most man pages do what I need them to do.You just need to learn the basics of how the man page is organised and what the brackets in the SYNOPSIS section mean and that makes using them much easier.
We also have
man manfor that purpose.I don’t think you get what I mean.
I don’t mean that man itself isn’t functional, I mean the way most man pages are written isn’t clear enough to communicate how to use the programs they refer to.
I’d include the man page for man in that, and I’d encourage anyone else to look at it from the eyes of someone who can follow written instructions and ask “How does this manual/help file compare to others I have read?”.
So, for example, in the examples, it says:
man -a intro Display, in succession, all of the available intro manual pages contained within the manual. It is possible to quit between successive displays or skip any of them.
Those two lines are the only place within man’s man page (at least the one you get from man man) that use the string “intro”. What is an intro in this context? Guess you got to run it to find out.
What is -a for? About 200+ lines down there is a two sentence explanation.
The first sentence tells you how man normally behaves, saying: “By default, man will exit after displaying the most suitable manual page it finds.” This sentence is unclear (“When does man exit after displaying the most suitable manual page it finds? When I run man ls I see the manual for ls on my screen until I press ‘q’ to ‘quit’ out of it.”) and not immediately connected to the purpose of the flag/option.
The second sentence says: “Using this option forces man to display all the manual pages with names that match the search criteria.” This is a lot clearer, and my only complaint about it can be that it’s not the first sentence in the explanation.
Yeah, one big problem of
manI found was the severe lack of explanation of what the command is mainly intended to do. It’s as if the user is expected to run themanafter knowing what purpose a specific program exists for, which, I guess is what it is intended for. I tend to rely on the package manager’s information and other similar sources for that information andmanmainly for determining the exact usage.I don’t at all expect
manto be useful for someone who can just follow written instructions.The reason being than
manis just supposed to tell the user, what typy stuff needs to be done for specific functionality. And most programs tend to be doing some small thingy and not fulfilling the user’s whole requirement in one go.Meaning, to be happy with just
man, one needs to be able to create a solution for themselves by properly fitting little parts and that is already more than half way to being able to do programming.Your
man -a introexample and what followed, made me more confused than before of what you were trying to say, so I am just trying to go with the feel of it for now.…
Maybe knowing that you can use
/and then whatever string of text to find something in the man page (because it useslessto paginate the output) would be useful for some of what you said. So you can do/-aand press Enter to start searching for “-a”. And the reason for it being so far is because it is in the “OPTIONS” section.I now feel like someone who reads a lot of legal documents would be fine with
manpages. Was this format made by someone in that field?Yeah I’m okay with the basic navigation options. The primary point is that man pages do look like they had written by someone who does not do technical writing. Whether that’s someone coming from a law background, programming, or whatever.
It’s not written for an end user who wants to know how to use the tools they have available. It will tell you what a command “does”, sometimes, but it doesn’t explain itself. It presumes a certain amount of pre-existing knowledge, or familiarity with the syntax of man writers.
For another example, the man for ls repeatedly lists options referencing “implied” entries without ever explaining what “implied” means in this context. It presupposes that the reader knows what that term means. I know what an implication is in an English class, and the antonym for “implied” is “explicit”, but in a man page? No clue. Not like there’s reference to or examples of “explicit” entries to contrast with “implied” entries. You just have to know what it means in context, or figure it out some other way.
This is why I hate linux, it appeals to the male fantasy !!!
I guess you never heard of the finger command.
It’s more about most people don’t have time to learn all the commands to be a sufficient enough user. I don’t want to dig through an endless stream of AI slop articles hallucinating me the commands I need for something, nor have the time and money to retreat from society “to learn it properly”. Also often the things I do is more intuitive for a button or shortcut press (I have made a card for my keyboard for F-keys) rather than typing in every time the commands.
Going CLI from GUI feels like ripping out the interiors and the dashboard from your car to make it slightly lighter the same way race cars are done, but instead you’re doing it to the family car. Sure, a lot of GUI is now a web app, because some techbro in the 2010’s wanted to
collect our data for advertisement opportunities and creating the Torment Nexusfree us from software installations, so we could just type www . wordprocessor . com into the URL bar of our browser instead of running the spooky and scary wordprocessor.exe after running the even spookier and scarier wordprocessor_install_1_6_5.exe. This in turn lead to a lot of student being over-reliant on HTML-like formatting for UI, and GTK and Qt not being taught in turn, which also could serve as lightweight and mostly cross-platform GUI. I even created my own GUI subsystem in my game engine for its editors.A lot of problems caused by those on the top are being blamed on “normie users”, because we need to be “ideologically neutral”, except when it comes to “supressed” ideologies…
you don’t have to memorize the commands, just use
tldr commandandaproposto your advantage.Everything will seem difficult when you’re not used to it and are changing habit, it’s not just a GUI to CLI thing.
“imaginary grandma” is a crazy form of grandparent-denying gaslighting and I will absolutely start using it
That varies from command to command though.
manis nice if you know how to use the command but have forgotten which option does what you want. But if you have no idea how to use a program, reading e.g.man awkwill not be very helpful