I have so many questions, none of which are answered by the article. Was the flavor really picked by an AI? If so, how did they train the AI? What kind of AI was this? What other flavors did it come up with? Did they try a bunch of them and this was the best one they could get?
This whole thing just screams marketing stunt to me, and not a particularly good one. I can’t wait for this whole AI thing to just die out already. How is it that every tech fad seems to somehow end up being even dumber than the previous one (although I think the whole NFT thing might have set a new low bar)?
It’s just the latest in a long line of experimental, conceptual Coke flavours. Honestly, it’s something I’ve been saying for years; stop being constrained by imitating “real” flavours and let the flavour scientists loose, let 'em go nuts.
So far they’ve done:
Space (I liked that, hints of toasted carmel and raspberries)
Dream (Also good, a little bubblegummy, a little cotton candy-y, a little mangolike)
Transformation (Awful, like coke with coconut oil and a hint of turpentine)
Byte (Just decent, kind of indescribable)
Pixel (I never got to try it, it was US only, but by all descriptions it wasn’t great)
Movement (A bit like theatre butter and cinnamon, it was okay but wasn’t a fan)
And now AI flavour. I plan to give it a shot, but I don’t expect much after their last two Tech-y flavours were eh.
You’re totally right, everyone knows that blue has been one of the best flavors for a long time, yet most companies are scared because blue “isn’t real”.
Where do you get all these Coca Cola flavours? I’m in Germany and have only ever seen vanilla, lemon, cherry and life (next to the default, light and zero).
I get them at my normal grocery store (in Canada). They’re limited time, they rotate in and out, so maybe you just missed them, or maybe they’re an NA thing.
I tried the XP flavored coke that is marketed towards gamers and I couldn’t really tell a difference between it and Coca-Cola Classic™. Maybe it has a slightly bit more licoricish flavor? I couldn’t tell because I was too busy leveling up with all of the XP I was gaining while drinking it.
Mountain Dew seems to have been leaning into that, and it’s mostly been good. I don’t know what their latest Halloween mystery flavor is supposed to be. It’s certainly nothing natural. But I like it.
I loved Starlight and dream. Both were the kinda things that I wouldn’t want every drink to be like, but wow were they cool to try out and I’d absolutely try any experimental flavours I see because of that.
I wasn’t aware of most of the others though. I think these can be harder to find in some places. Most of the ones I’ve had were from 7-11s or similar convenience stores, but I don’t usually even go to such places.
I’ve tried most of those. The first one, which was called starlight in the states, was the best one so far. The others haven’t been as good. The new AI one is probably the one I’ve liked the most since starlight.
Space (I think it was branded “Starlight”) was really good, Id keep getting it if it were available. Then I tried Dream (it was meh), couldn’t get the Starlight I wanted, and just… ignored them from then on out. This new one is the first one Ive tried in a while; its ok, vaguely autumnal (cinnamon-y…?) but Im not hooked.
“Unsurprisingly, ‘Diarrhea Sasquatch Xtreme’ hit the mark yet failed to wow test groups,” is likely one of many test flavors removed from the article for PR reasons.
The press release they link to is not especially forthcoming with information either and all they can get in terms of details is from that press release and tasting it themselves.
Yeah, I’m guessing it was as as much an “AI” thing as everything was “i-something” about 20 years ago, or a bunch of stuff, even video game consoles, were the “something something computer” 40 years ago
Companies using AI in a stupid way will die out, but the models themselves are far too useful for certain job fields (probably not yours or you wouldn’t be comparing it to NFT’s) for them to ever die. They’re going to expand and become integrated into the data environment.
I don’t know what their ai process looks like, what kind of data they trained it on, etc.
But annecdotally, I’ve played around a bit with chatgpt making cocktail recipes, and it’s been surprisingly good at it. They sometimes need a little fine-tuning but they tend to get you in a pretty close ballpark, it’s made some interesting suggestions I probably wouldn’t have thought of, but nothing that turned out to be bad.
A lot of recipes tend to follow some pretty well-established ratios which means they can be broken down into some sort of mathematical formula which is something computers can actually do pretty well, and it’s often just a matter for swapping out one ingredient or combination of them for another that is similarly salty/sweet/bitter/sour/umami.
For example a standard recipe for punch is 1 part sour, 2 of sweet, 3 of strong (liquor of your choice), 4 of weak (tea, juice, soda, water, etc.) and you can mix and match just about any ingredients that fit those profiles and get a drinkable punch.
I’m sure a company like coke probably has a long list of flavorings with known and well-documented flavor profiles that an ai trained on a list of proven recipes could mix and match with all day long.
That’s not how a LLM like Chatgpt works. It’s not referencing cocktail recipes, compiling their ingredients, seeing commonalities, figuring out mathematical formulas, and then experimenting with the variables. That kind of thing is still probably a decade or more away, if not decades.
If you’re curious, see what people have tried to do with AI generated recipes that fit nutrition guidelines and how they never add up correctly.
From what I’ve seen of cocktails and recipe books, there’s probably a lot more of them than you realize. I guarantee you there are thousands of cocktail recipes you’ve never heard of that have been written into published recipe books.
All of that to say that Chatgpt is basically just making up arrangements of words that based on its training should go together.
Yeah I’ve seen people recommend ChatGPT for meal planning and recipes, and it’s mostly fine for common, simple recipes but it does super weird things when you ask it for something nonstandard, that has a lot of variations, or with dietary restrictions. Like it repeatedly gave me recipes with my allergens with a note to check package for said allergen and other weird things like claiming frozen vegetables take 10 minutes to roast in the oven. It’s useful for certain things but it’s not really intelligent.
A lot of recipes tend to follow some pretty well-established ratios which means they can be broken down into some sort of mathematical formula which is something computers can actually do pretty well, and it’s often just a matter for swapping out one ingredient or combination of them for another that is similarly salty/sweet/bitter/sour/umami.
So, basically what people who are decent at cooking do all the time. Groundbreaking.
I’m a little bit of a cooking nerd, and a pretty adventurous eater. There are some flavor combinations that, when they’re explained to me, make a lot of sense, and I can see how they would work well together, but I would never think of putting together myself in a million years unless I saw some high-end chef on a cooking show or fancy restaurant do it first.
Off the top of my head, I remember someone on iron chef making some sort of fish ice cream, and someone on some other cooking show making some sort of liver pate and jelly donut, and both were very well received by the judges. I’d never think of putting those ingredients together in those ways, my first gut instinct if you just told me that those foods existed without further explanation was that they sound gross, but after thinking about it or having the chefs or judges explain them, I can totally see how they can work.
There’s only so many chefs cooking at a high level like that though, whose brains are wired in such a way that they really understand how the flavors can work together and can work around the biases that most of us have and put together ingredients in new and unexpected ways.
AI often won’t have the same biases we do (though it may be biased in other ways) so it could lower the barrier to entry for those of us who have the hands-on skills to put those sorts of dishes together, but maybe aren’t quite creative enough to come up with them by ourselves, and for the more creative types it could potentially become a useful sounding board for them to bounce ideas off of.
And yet the example soda flavor wasn’t well received because randomly putting shit together isn’t something that is inherently better when a computer does it.
Even though it’s apparently a pretty lackluster soda, I think it’s pretty notable that I haven’t seen any reviews saying that it’s outrightbad, it’s just not great. That’s better than I would expect from just randomly mixing ingredients.
Now we don’t know how many iterations it took to get them to that point, what kind of prompts or human handholding it took to get it to that point. It very well might be that the computer gave them a thousand bad formulas and this was the only one that was remotely palatable, but we don’t know and probably never will know if that was the case.
Not that I think coke will do it, but personally I think it would be cool for them to take the feedback they get from this soda, feed it back into the ai and have the computer design a version 2.0 based on that feedback and see how well it goes, and keep iterating it that way and see where they end up.
It will absolutely die out in that it will go back to what it was previously. We’ve been using “AI” for decades now, only it’s better known under the name machine learning. This latest surge in interest is just a bunch of marketing hype and a bunch of executives too stupid to realize they’re being fed a line of bullshit by contractors promising if they hire them to make an “AI” they’ll be able to fire their entire workforce and dump their salaries into fat executive bonuses. Just like all the previous tech fads this will stop being the hot thing once enough of these douche-bags get burned and even the dumbest of them learns that no, you can’t just replace your entire workforce with “AI” and call it a day.
The tools now are far better. You can slap together something useful with some basic Python knowledge. Hardest part is mixing up the data into giving you good results.
It’ll hang around, but I don’t think Nvidea’s market cap is justified. It’ll crash hard, but it could be tomorrow or three years from now.
I don’t think it’s going to end up impacting most industries all that much. Low end call centers will probably be impacted, but they were already being displaced by automated call trees and such even before this latest fad. At some point trucking will be displaced by self driving trucks, but that tech is looking to be further off than it initially seemed as well thanks in part to some pretty high profile accidents and renewed scrutiny from various governments. Beyond that the impact in other industries is looking to be fairly minimal. You’ll see smarter tools being rolled out to let people do the things they were already doing faster, but just like the “magic clone” tool in Photoshop while it will make some tedious time consuming activities much faster, it won’t really fundamentally change things.
Honestly the biggest impact is most likely to be on crime, with these various tools being leveraged by criminals to make increasingly convincing scams, phishing attacks, and even worse things.
In biology we’ve been using machine learning for a long time now so the AI super hype out there is pretty funny to me. It’s for sure useful with stuff like predicting protein folding and analyzing genes and stuff, but it’s all hyper-specific stuff just like it has its always been. Good for removing tedium for sure as its the reason we can even know the human genome because it would take literally forever to sequence it without modern tech, which we did in the in the 90s and finished in 2003.
My big hope is that all this hype will get people to invest in proteonomic technology which is 100% a great use case for AI and also the future.
I run a bunch of e-commerce businesses and am a freelance developer. LLMs have absolutely changed my workflow and what I can achieve. There is hype, sure, but underneath it are absurdly useful platforms that, for me at least, have replaced the need to hire digital marketers, copywriters and junior programmers. This is too useful to be called a fad and dismissed the way the metaverse or NFTs rightly have been.
How are you using it to replace junior programmers? What specifically?
I haven’t found much besides tooling that answers questions (that are frequently right ENOUGH), write relatively small, targeted functions, add just a bit of IDE-embedded help, and…not much else.
…stuff that could speed up a few things, but nothing that would remotely replace even a junior developer
Well, on the label of the ones I tried it said co-developed by AI.
So yeah, probably marketing stunt
That said, if it hadn’t been artificially sweetened, I would probably have preferred it to the normal one. Felt like it had more flavor. Similar to Fritz Cola from Germany.
Deep Learning at least can produce useful tools here or there. No one has yet to come up with a good idea for why NFTs should be a thing. Though I’m sure someone will come along with their niche use that, on further consideration, doesn’t actually solve anything after all.
I have so many questions, none of which are answered by the article. Was the flavor really picked by an AI? If so, how did they train the AI? What kind of AI was this? What other flavors did it come up with? Did they try a bunch of them and this was the best one they could get?
This whole thing just screams marketing stunt to me, and not a particularly good one. I can’t wait for this whole AI thing to just die out already. How is it that every tech fad seems to somehow end up being even dumber than the previous one (although I think the whole NFT thing might have set a new low bar)?
It’s just the latest in a long line of experimental, conceptual Coke flavours. Honestly, it’s something I’ve been saying for years; stop being constrained by imitating “real” flavours and let the flavour scientists loose, let 'em go nuts.
So far they’ve done:
Space (I liked that, hints of toasted carmel and raspberries)
Dream (Also good, a little bubblegummy, a little cotton candy-y, a little mangolike)
Transformation (Awful, like coke with coconut oil and a hint of turpentine)
Byte (Just decent, kind of indescribable)
Pixel (I never got to try it, it was US only, but by all descriptions it wasn’t great)
Movement (A bit like theatre butter and cinnamon, it was okay but wasn’t a fan)
And now AI flavour. I plan to give it a shot, but I don’t expect much after their last two Tech-y flavours were eh.
You’re totally right, everyone knows that blue has been one of the best flavors for a long time, yet most companies are scared because blue “isn’t real”.
how can blue be real if blueberries arent real
Where do you get all these Coca Cola flavours? I’m in Germany and have only ever seen vanilla, lemon, cherry and life (next to the default, light and zero).
I get them at my normal grocery store (in Canada). They’re limited time, they rotate in and out, so maybe you just missed them, or maybe they’re an NA thing.
What does Coca Cola Life taste like?
Life is their Stevia brand. How it tastes depends on how stevia tastes to you; like cilantro, it’s got a genetic component.
Honestly it’s awful, it tastes like someone forgot to add the sugary syrup to Coca Cola.
Bought a 500ml bottle for me and my gf as we were curious, and we didn’t even manage to finish the bottle between us…
I tried the XP flavored coke that is marketed towards gamers and I couldn’t really tell a difference between it and Coca-Cola Classic™. Maybe it has a slightly bit more licoricish flavor? I couldn’t tell because I was too busy leveling up with all of the XP I was gaining while drinking it.
Proper classic? The one with cocaine?
Mountain Dew seems to have been leaning into that, and it’s mostly been good. I don’t know what their latest Halloween mystery flavor is supposed to be. It’s certainly nothing natural. But I like it.
Baja Blast is fucking awesome.
I think it’s Airheads.
Dream sounds pretty fire tbh.
No, Fire TBH tasted like ashes and hose water.
“mmmm, tastes like real AI!”
I really think they should bring back Starlight, possibly outside the Coke brand. To me, it tasted like graham cracker.
I loved Starlight and dream. Both were the kinda things that I wouldn’t want every drink to be like, but wow were they cool to try out and I’d absolutely try any experimental flavours I see because of that.
I wasn’t aware of most of the others though. I think these can be harder to find in some places. Most of the ones I’ve had were from 7-11s or similar convenience stores, but I don’t usually even go to such places.
I always try the other flavors, but can’t say I’ve liked any of them. The AI one was probably the worst of them though.
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I mean, that SOUNDS kinda terrible.
…just the kind of flavor that a computer would enjoy though. Hmmmmmm…
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I’ve tried most of those. The first one, which was called starlight in the states, was the best one so far. The others haven’t been as good. The new AI one is probably the one I’ve liked the most since starlight.
Space (I think it was branded “Starlight”) was really good, Id keep getting it if it were available. Then I tried Dream (it was meh), couldn’t get the Starlight I wanted, and just… ignored them from then on out. This new one is the first one Ive tried in a while; its ok, vaguely autumnal (cinnamon-y…?) but Im not hooked.
They probably trained it using data from their Coca-Cola freestyle dispensers if you’ve used one. That’s my guess.
People like Vanilla and people like Grape, so here’s Vanilla-Grape by CokeAI!
Sounds horrifyingly plausible.
I’d drink that tbh
Yeah sounds like a Purple Cow, I’d be all over that
The answer is simple. They’re using blockchain NFTs to reach new market growth using AI to provide flavor solutions to consumers
I can’t wait to get Bored Ape-flavored Coke on the blockchain!
So, ape piss?
“Unsurprisingly, ‘Diarrhea Sasquatch Xtreme’ hit the mark yet failed to wow test groups,” is likely one of many test flavors removed from the article for PR reasons.
Sorry about that. I had taco bell for lunch.
Bad AI
Per an early draft of the Proverbia Grecorum:
Or, if your latin is rusty:
The press release they link to is not especially forthcoming with information either and all they can get in terms of details is from that press release and tasting it themselves.
Yeah, I’m guessing it was as as much an “AI” thing as everything was “i-something” about 20 years ago, or a bunch of stuff, even video game consoles, were the “something something computer” 40 years ago
Companies using AI in a stupid way will die out, but the models themselves are far too useful for certain job fields (probably not yours or you wouldn’t be comparing it to NFT’s) for them to ever die. They’re going to expand and become integrated into the data environment.
I don’t know what their ai process looks like, what kind of data they trained it on, etc.
But annecdotally, I’ve played around a bit with chatgpt making cocktail recipes, and it’s been surprisingly good at it. They sometimes need a little fine-tuning but they tend to get you in a pretty close ballpark, it’s made some interesting suggestions I probably wouldn’t have thought of, but nothing that turned out to be bad.
A lot of recipes tend to follow some pretty well-established ratios which means they can be broken down into some sort of mathematical formula which is something computers can actually do pretty well, and it’s often just a matter for swapping out one ingredient or combination of them for another that is similarly salty/sweet/bitter/sour/umami.
For example a standard recipe for punch is 1 part sour, 2 of sweet, 3 of strong (liquor of your choice), 4 of weak (tea, juice, soda, water, etc.) and you can mix and match just about any ingredients that fit those profiles and get a drinkable punch.
I’m sure a company like coke probably has a long list of flavorings with known and well-documented flavor profiles that an ai trained on a list of proven recipes could mix and match with all day long.
That’s not how a LLM like Chatgpt works. It’s not referencing cocktail recipes, compiling their ingredients, seeing commonalities, figuring out mathematical formulas, and then experimenting with the variables. That kind of thing is still probably a decade or more away, if not decades.
If you’re curious, see what people have tried to do with AI generated recipes that fit nutrition guidelines and how they never add up correctly.
From what I’ve seen of cocktails and recipe books, there’s probably a lot more of them than you realize. I guarantee you there are thousands of cocktail recipes you’ve never heard of that have been written into published recipe books.
All of that to say that Chatgpt is basically just making up arrangements of words that based on its training should go together.
Yeah I’ve seen people recommend ChatGPT for meal planning and recipes, and it’s mostly fine for common, simple recipes but it does super weird things when you ask it for something nonstandard, that has a lot of variations, or with dietary restrictions. Like it repeatedly gave me recipes with my allergens with a note to check package for said allergen and other weird things like claiming frozen vegetables take 10 minutes to roast in the oven. It’s useful for certain things but it’s not really intelligent.
So, basically what people who are decent at cooking do all the time. Groundbreaking.
I’m a little bit of a cooking nerd, and a pretty adventurous eater. There are some flavor combinations that, when they’re explained to me, make a lot of sense, and I can see how they would work well together, but I would never think of putting together myself in a million years unless I saw some high-end chef on a cooking show or fancy restaurant do it first.
Off the top of my head, I remember someone on iron chef making some sort of fish ice cream, and someone on some other cooking show making some sort of liver pate and jelly donut, and both were very well received by the judges. I’d never think of putting those ingredients together in those ways, my first gut instinct if you just told me that those foods existed without further explanation was that they sound gross, but after thinking about it or having the chefs or judges explain them, I can totally see how they can work.
There’s only so many chefs cooking at a high level like that though, whose brains are wired in such a way that they really understand how the flavors can work together and can work around the biases that most of us have and put together ingredients in new and unexpected ways.
AI often won’t have the same biases we do (though it may be biased in other ways) so it could lower the barrier to entry for those of us who have the hands-on skills to put those sorts of dishes together, but maybe aren’t quite creative enough to come up with them by ourselves, and for the more creative types it could potentially become a useful sounding board for them to bounce ideas off of.
And yet the example soda flavor wasn’t well received because randomly putting shit together isn’t something that is inherently better when a computer does it.
Even though it’s apparently a pretty lackluster soda, I think it’s pretty notable that I haven’t seen any reviews saying that it’s outrightbad, it’s just not great. That’s better than I would expect from just randomly mixing ingredients.
Now we don’t know how many iterations it took to get them to that point, what kind of prompts or human handholding it took to get it to that point. It very well might be that the computer gave them a thousand bad formulas and this was the only one that was remotely palatable, but we don’t know and probably never will know if that was the case.
Not that I think coke will do it, but personally I think it would be cool for them to take the feedback they get from this soda, feed it back into the ai and have the computer design a version 2.0 based on that feedback and see how well it goes, and keep iterating it that way and see where they end up.
I mean for a machine to do it? Yeah it kind of is.
Like the whole purpose of developing AI is to replace us, it being able to do what we do is literally the metric we are shooting for.
AI isn’t going to die out but hopefully it’ll get quieter and more boring/focused.
It will absolutely die out in that it will go back to what it was previously. We’ve been using “AI” for decades now, only it’s better known under the name machine learning. This latest surge in interest is just a bunch of marketing hype and a bunch of executives too stupid to realize they’re being fed a line of bullshit by contractors promising if they hire them to make an “AI” they’ll be able to fire their entire workforce and dump their salaries into fat executive bonuses. Just like all the previous tech fads this will stop being the hot thing once enough of these douche-bags get burned and even the dumbest of them learns that no, you can’t just replace your entire workforce with “AI” and call it a day.
The tools now are far better. You can slap together something useful with some basic Python knowledge. Hardest part is mixing up the data into giving you good results.
It’ll hang around, but I don’t think Nvidea’s market cap is justified. It’ll crash hard, but it could be tomorrow or three years from now.
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I don’t think it’s going to end up impacting most industries all that much. Low end call centers will probably be impacted, but they were already being displaced by automated call trees and such even before this latest fad. At some point trucking will be displaced by self driving trucks, but that tech is looking to be further off than it initially seemed as well thanks in part to some pretty high profile accidents and renewed scrutiny from various governments. Beyond that the impact in other industries is looking to be fairly minimal. You’ll see smarter tools being rolled out to let people do the things they were already doing faster, but just like the “magic clone” tool in Photoshop while it will make some tedious time consuming activities much faster, it won’t really fundamentally change things.
Honestly the biggest impact is most likely to be on crime, with these various tools being leveraged by criminals to make increasingly convincing scams, phishing attacks, and even worse things.
In biology we’ve been using machine learning for a long time now so the AI super hype out there is pretty funny to me. It’s for sure useful with stuff like predicting protein folding and analyzing genes and stuff, but it’s all hyper-specific stuff just like it has its always been. Good for removing tedium for sure as its the reason we can even know the human genome because it would take literally forever to sequence it without modern tech, which we did in the in the 90s and finished in 2003.
My big hope is that all this hype will get people to invest in proteonomic technology which is 100% a great use case for AI and also the future.
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I run a bunch of e-commerce businesses and am a freelance developer. LLMs have absolutely changed my workflow and what I can achieve. There is hype, sure, but underneath it are absurdly useful platforms that, for me at least, have replaced the need to hire digital marketers, copywriters and junior programmers. This is too useful to be called a fad and dismissed the way the metaverse or NFTs rightly have been.
How are you using it to replace junior programmers? What specifically?
I haven’t found much besides tooling that answers questions (that are frequently right ENOUGH), write relatively small, targeted functions, add just a bit of IDE-embedded help, and…not much else.
…stuff that could speed up a few things, but nothing that would remotely replace even a junior developer
Well, on the label of the ones I tried it said co-developed by AI.
So yeah, probably marketing stunt
That said, if it hadn’t been artificially sweetened, I would probably have preferred it to the normal one. Felt like it had more flavor. Similar to Fritz Cola from Germany.
Deep Learning at least can produce useful tools here or there. No one has yet to come up with a good idea for why NFTs should be a thing. Though I’m sure someone will come along with their niche use that, on further consideration, doesn’t actually solve anything after all.