Just a shower thought. Obviously depends on the industry, but in terms of electronics I fee enthusiast grade (think gaming motherboards, for example) are better built than professional grade. Thoughts?
People mix up duty cycle with build quality and functionality when talking about business vs. high end enthusiast gear.
Take a (random) example of an espresso machine or coffee grinder made for a coffee shop that can do 1000s of shots day in, day out, they tend to cost a small fortune. Compare that to a similarly priced home machine and the home machine cannot do that number of shots, just a hundred or so day in, day out, but will have way more functionality that an enthusiast will get value out of. Does a home espresso machine need to be able to do 1000s of shots per day over a 5 to 10 year period? Does it fuck.
Another example would be the duty cycle on a high end NAS or SAN drive that is designed for 1000x more reads and writes, never being turned off, etc. vs. a high performance enthusiast drive.
Buy the duty cycle you actually need.
I talked about the same thing in terms of hospitality televisions like you find in a hotel lobby or airport; on 365 days a year, at full brightness so you can see it from across the room. I bet a consumer TV would start to come literally unglued after a several weeks if made to work like that. Duty cycles is the term, and your advice to buy the cycle rating that you need is perfect.
Depends what you mean by better.
Motherboards, Enterprise grade, tend to have a longer guaranteed longevity, better components with a lower failure rate, and more feature complete for Enterprise requirements.
Enthusiast grade motherboards tend to try to get everything to go as fast as possible without worrying about stability, lots of RGB
Different requirements, so better is subjective
I think the holy Grail is cheap, last forever, good dor all use cases, and that’s where restaurant supply store is really win. A lot of the restaurant equipment is cheap, will never fail, great for everything.
And then there’s military grade, versus commercial grade, versus retail. A lot of military grades just barely good enough to work.
So I think the key here, is to join a community where people care about the thing, and see what the community uses for their day-to-day. And that’s the best.
A lot of military grades just barely good enough to work
There’s a lot of variation.
If it’s cheaper to make one item that will last forever, that’s what they’ll go with. If it’s cheaper in the long run to have something that breaks after 3 uses… That’s what you’ll get.
No one understands the meaning of the word “disposable” like a military
True, but there’s something important to point out there. Unlike consumer or business grade stuff, the military will know that it breaks after 3 uses, label it as such, and mandate that you replace it after 3 uses, even if it’s still working. The stakes are often as high as they get in the military, and they treat it accordingly.
For real - M1 tanks can swap out the majority of a drivetrain assembly very quickly in the field. They’re designed with a logistics chain in mind. Major assemblies will be sent back to the supply depot or even the factory, and forward-staged spares will be subbed in.
The keyboards you get with business-grade desktop computers are ridiculous crap compared to hobbyist keyboards; not only in hardware build quality, but in features too.
These days, a high-end hobbyist keyboard is probably running VIA and you can remap the keys from a user-friendly web interface. (No, you don’t need a C compiler and to figure out how to flash firmware anymore. That was a few years ago.)
ZMK is the new shit!
ZMK doesn’t support real-time keymap changes yet, which is a really nice feature.
Nice!
Can I flash my CTRL tkl board to use this?
Probably! I see “Drop CTRL” on the compatibility list:
Thanks! I looked for “CTRL” and didn’t find it :-)
I always try to buy more enterprise hardware such as SSDs and HDDs.
They’re usually cheaper used because of their lifecycle.
I just bought 2 x 3.83TB nvme drives for $160 a pop.
They have 5.4PB of endurance and I received them with only 60TB written.
Same goes for hard drives. I have some Seagate exos that is just about $10/TB.
They have a MTBF of 2.5 million hours.
Absolutely enthusiast grade is higher. Business grade is just enough to do the job.
Bonus round:
Military grade is from the lowest bidder.
Industrial grade is durable with absolutely no extras (and also expensive).
Laboratory grade is usually extremely high end, high cost, and precise.
Military grade is from the lowest bidder.
This is kind of an internet myth. Military grade hardware is built to last decades. They award contracts to the lowest qualified bidder who can meet the spec. That last part is important because military specifications ensure the hardware can perform under harsh conditions and heavy abuse, with low rates of failure. They also inspect every single item, where pro-sumer or even professional equipment only has a small percentage of produced equipment inspected. When I was in the Army we were still using equipment from the Korean war and it worked perfectly.
When it’s applied to consumer products, tho, it usually is just fancy words, blowing smoke up your ass to trick you into thinking it’s tough and durable.
That may be true for stuff delivered to the army but I would believe the myth more in my local electronics store.
Also stuff made 15 years ago seems more durable than the stuff from say 5 years ago.Also stuff made 15 years ago seems more durable than the stuff from say 5 years ago.
This sounds a lot like survivorship bias. Stuff made 15 years ago that’s still in use today is more durable than stuff from 5 years ago.
There was plenty of junk 15 years ago, too. It’s just all been thrown away by now.
There is surely a survivor bias at work but some things still feel like they were made to last more than the next product cycle.
This is definitely not an internet myth. I was also in the Army (US) and our gear is worthless trash that only survives because people put huge amounts of work into learning its quirks. Example, if you spit in an M16 it jams. We had rows and rows of Humvees and Bradleys that had under 10k miles on them broken down. Abrams maintenance is something like 4 hours per hour of usage or something absurd like that. I think the only decent vehicle we still have in service is the FMTV, and their whole drivetrain is civilian stuff (CAT motor, Alison transmission, Dana axles etc).
I’ll meet you in the middle and say they used to make stuff that was indestructible. Old GP tents, e-tools, and cots are beasts. But the military-industrial complex has fully kicked in now and just like everything else, military stuff is built to maximize profit.
When were you in? I got out right as a whole bunch of new gear and equipment was coming in. We were still issued the M16-A2. I wanted the A3 with that swoopy eye piece, but never had a chance to try one. The A2 was probably the best rifle I’ve ever fired, as long as you kept it clean (not always easy in the field). They were in the process of phasing out the UH-1H (Huey) when I left, in favor of the Blackhawk. My CO hated the Blackhawks and said he could put 10 Hueys in the air for the price of one Blackhawk.
09-15. I had an A2 and an A4. As an owner of AKs, I may have been spoiled but I found the M16s to be truly awful in terms of the cleaning maintenance. To be fair my sloppy ass A2 was more forgiving than the A4. The A4 was nice and accurate in garrison but downrange I talked my armorer into getting me my A2 back. The dust was too much for the A4 to handle.
I was a Forward Observer but was put in an aviation unit for some reason so I spent a good amount of time RTOing adjacent to various helis. I can say without a doubt that we had helis down for maintenance every day, sometimes for multiple days at a time.
This all circles back around to “the older the better” theme from my previous comment. Chinooks are an ancient platform but they’re super reliable and nearly never broke down outside of schedule. The M16A2 I had did have like 1/8" of play in it between upper and lower receiver but I did keep it working. God knows how many rounds went through that thing. But both of those things are what, like 'Nam era? All the truly durable stuff is old school. I’m just saying the new stuff is garbage.
That’s unfortunate to hear about the new stuff. I was really hoping to check out some of the new gear before my ETS, but it never happened. I guess I didn’t miss anything.
You were 13F? Wild, man! I went to basic at Ft. Sill where you would have done your AIT. I was thinking about re-classing as 13F at one point, since y’all were harder than woodpecker lips. Did you go to Rucker when you got attached to an aviation unit?
Yeah I was 13F. Even got through JFO school at one point. It was a cool job and other 13Fs were pretty legit just about across the board. The tricky bit they don’t tell you is that you get attached to infantry and usually by yourself so you’re the only guy in the room that can count higher than 4.
I went to Riley. Kansas sucks to drive through but it wasn’t a bad place to live. Stayed there for about 3 years and went off to the next place.
What was your MOS? I’m guessing 13 series?
67N, helicopter mechanic and crew member. I really wanted to go airborne, but my unit wouldn’t pay for it. I should have got it in my contract when enlisting, then I could have gone right after AIT. That’s when you’re at the height of fitness anyways, after six months straight of training, so airborne school wouldn’t be quite as hard. I petitioned my unit several times during AIT, but the answer was always no. Oh well! Not going probably saved my knees. Did you see any combat? I was too young for the 1st Iraq war, and got out right before 9/11, so I never went to war.
Business grade will also be chugging along while the enthusiast has replaced the thing five times over.
I really think it depends on the product. People talking about low end keyboards or whatnot aren’t far off, but I’d take a good business laptop any day. It won’t have fancy RGB lights but will keep working forever.
That’s fair, I have a couple “enterprise”-type laptops and they’re tanks that just refuse to die.
I’d much rather a business grade laptop than a gamer laptop.
Gamer laptop will break in 2 years, business thinkpad will be still going after 10, minimum.
I’m never getting another HP Omen laptop, custom builds are the way to go. Digital Storm, System 76, AVA Direct, Falcon Northwest, and Maingear offer a variety of custom build options for laptops, desktops, and all-in-ones(AVA Direct).
Are these known to last the test of time and are rugged? From what I’ve seen, the build quality of those mentioned are not quite there. Of that list, which would you say has best quality, fit and finish?
Sorry for the confusion on the first response. I mixed up different posts. From the list, I’d say Digital Storm, Falcon Northwest, and System 76 offer the best build quality, fit, and finish.
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Enthusiast grade = Most powerful, most features
Professional grade = Most durable
Executive grade = Schmucks think it makes you look important
Enthusiast grade is better for almost every use case
Business model or commercial model?
Business computing such as word processing and spreadsheets, database software, requires very little processing power. So you’re making an apples to oranges comparison.
For apples to apples, check the specs on pro stuff for yourself: https://www.amd.com/en/graphics/workstations
The pro stuff is essentially double the processing power, and double the price. The difference is in process threading and number of cores. Rendering huge video and CAD projects, for example, would take forever on a gaming rig, because that kind of rendering software is optimized for threading, game processes are not usually optimized or not as optimized. For example, there are some games that will only use one core of even a dual core processor.
I’m sure someone that knows much more about this stuff will correct any errors in terminology. Anyway, that’s my take on the question.
Initially I thought, well, what graphics processors do they have inside commercial gaming systems, such as a high-end training, flight simulator, or racing simulator. They use the RTX 30 and 40 series.
Generally, hobbyist and consumer grade products are not meant to be used 40 hours a week, such as commercial products are. It’s easy to see huge differences in these sort of products on things like lawn mowers, refrigeration. Even in televisions. Your television in your home is likely not meant to operate 365 days a year like the ones you find in a hotel lobby or airport. They just have higher quality components and engineering, designed to withstand long-term, high volume use. They use better glue.
Those workstation GPUs are also usually not very good for gaming, for the same reasons. Optimized for the professional use case and not the enthusiast one.
No question when it comes to factory production. Design it right and maintain it that system will be producing widgets long after you and your children have died of old age. I have worked on retrofits and repairs of machines from pre-ww2. Have coworkers who have worked on machines from the 19th century.
You can’t compare one of those beasts to something for the home hobbyists.
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think of keyboards. business grade is a 10$ POS memrane keyboard. enthusiast/hobby grade would be a 200$ keychron q6. same with pretty much everything else. business grade is cheap and easily replaceable.
edit: i copied @fubo on accident
enthusiast: Yesn’t.
Depends on product range, price, price vs. conpetition and price/performance ratioBusiness: Usually yes but they come with a “business tax” attached. Meaning they are made to make more money. So the manufacturer could in turn ask for more $$$.
Suddenly a 1000€ VR headset might cost 3000€ and could require a mo thly fee for the software.
Also have features you wouldn’t need at home like kensington locks.
