Whether or not it’s true if the population is increasing in spite of all of these things isn’t relevant. What’s relevant is that Israel is attempting several of them (only need 1 for it to be genocide), and they have been for several decades.
Let me quote some portions of the Hamas Covenant to you, and you tell me if you can find anything this insane in Israeli founding documents. Like it or not, Hamas has clearly stated its opposition to peace and its genocidal intent.
Intent is the difference.
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will abolish it, just as it abolished others before it
Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.
There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.
[The Jews] were behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about, here and there. With their money they formed secret societies, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, the Lions and others in different parts of the world for the purpose of sabotaging societies and achieving Zionist interests. With their money they were able to control imperialistic countries and instigate them to colonize many countries in order to enable them to exploit their resources and spread corruption there.
You may speak as much as you want about regional and world wars. They were behind World War I, when they were able to destroy the Islamic Caliphate, making financial gains and controlling resources. They obtained the Balfour Declaration, formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge financial gains by trading in armaments, and paved the way for the establishment of their state. It was they who instigated the replacement of the League of Nations with the United Nations and the Security Council to enable them to rule the world through them. There is no war going on anywhere, without having their finger in it.
[The Zionist invasion] relies greatly in its infiltration and espionage operations on the secret organizations it gave rise to, such as the Freemasons, The Rotary and Lions clubs, and other sabotage groups. All these organizations, whether secret or open, work in the interest of Zionism and according to its instructions. They aim at undermining societies, destroying values, corrupting consciences, deteriorating character and annihilating Islam. It is behind the drug trade and alcoholism in all its kinds so as to facilitate its control and expansion.
Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Muslim people. “May the cowards never sleep.”
It is the duty of the followers of other religions to stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region, because the day these followers should take over there will be nothing but carnage, displacement and terror.
And you are assuming I support Hamas. Could you please explain what led you to believe that? Because I don’t.
I posted that image to show how Israel doesn’t criticize itself when it commits genocide or ethnic cleansing but is quick to jump into conclusions and condemn their own enemy even though they are committing the same act.
I’m not assuming anything, I’m explaining that intent matters when considering whether genocide is happening. Hamas clearly has intent, Israel on the other hand? I’m willing to be convinced of course; certainly some officials have made genocidal statements, but I’m not aware of the official policy or stated aims of Israel being specifically genocidal the way Hamas is. Apartheid? Absolutely, and that’s bad enough.
Israel has attempted peace multiple times; I respect Arafat & the PLO for compromising and it’s a shame what happened with that process. Hamas considers these efforts a “contradiction to its principles” and a “waste of time”.
I agree. But to be honest your comment came out as sarcastic. Hamas don’t take issue in being clear about their own agendas. Israel does everything to hide it. You don’t need to find words like these in internal Israeli government documents. Their actions are enough. Nakba was ethnic cleansing. Today in Gaza is ethnic cleansing. Genocide is finally being used in the media as a word to describe the situation with accuracy.
You may be right about Netanyahu & Likud, anyway, and I’m certainly not saying the Palestinians don’t have every right to resist. I expect Israel’s stated aim, to destroy Hamas, is an honest one. I expect Gaza will be returned to the Palestinians when that goal is achieved, because again, I don’t see Israel as intentionally genocidal. I can’t say I’m not concerned that my expectations won’t be met, though.
False dichotomy. There are more options than “do nothing” and “force the evacuation of an entire populated area before bombing the entire region to the stone age”. It doesn’t take a political genius to see that.
The onus is not on this random internet commenter to produce an alternative. Can you really not think of one thing Israel could do that doesn’t involve glassing what’s left of a country?
Let’s see what they propose. Or you for that matter?
If Al qaeda was based in Canada and constantly attacking New York what would the U.S. have done post 9/11? Just leave them alone?
The truth is there no good option here. Elimination of Hamas is the only option and it will be bloody for both sides, partially due to Hamas use of Palestinian citizens as human shields. Hopefully after Hamas is removed from power Palestinians can elect leaders who don’t call for the complete annihilation of Israel and Israelis can elect moderates who are open to negotiations as well.
Unless you are among those who think Israel should be dissolved in which case you are not actually interested in a peaceful solution for all sides.
Even if “eliminate Hamas” is the response, forcing the entire population out and bombing the whole fucking place is not the only way.
Doubly so, because if you kill and/or displace hundreds of thousands of civilians, how many of those do you think will remain civilians, and how many will subsequently be bolstering the numbers of Hamas?
Actually, I believe in a one-state solution where it’s renamed back to Palestine (you know, to return the culture Israel tried to erase) with a single government of both Palestinians and Jews where everyone has full rights and gets to vote. All the former Israelis can stay. Those who have committed war crimes (weather from Israel’s side or otherwise) would be tried.
Jewish people should not have to be kicked out of their homes like they did to the Palestinians. “Never again” applies to everyone. They should be allowed to stay, but not settlers who have physically stolen homes from Palestinians in the past few years (and injured or killed many of them), those can fuck off to jail.
What you are calling for is a fantasy. The second Israelis did that they would be wiped out.
I live in reality - and we all need to - if we want this situation to finally come to a peaceful conclusion.
By the way I agree with you regarding the settlements. They are a provocation and moderate Israelis need to stop them and hopefully will once Netanyahu and his rightwing cronies are thrown out of office.
Seems like absolutely no one has a problem with that. It’s just when Israel bombs hospitals and shit and then says Hamas was doing whatever there, that’s where people are drawing the line.
More like launch missles into civilian areas intentionally. You’re really understating the situation.
Also by the way your solution is to just let Hamas continue intentionally attacking civilian targets? What country on the planet would allow their neighbor to do that?
Also by the way your solution is to just let Hamas continue intentionally attacking civilian targets?
Hmmm… and yet nowhere did I say that.
I’m seriously asking…
If you were in the IDF, Hamas fired from inside a hospital full of children, do you shoot at the hospital knowing that at least a few children will be hit?
Do you shoot at the hospital and say these kids were killed by your enemy even though it was your own bullet that hit them?
Or do you say, “oh shit yeah these kids are just like my own, I can’t shoot this hospital, there needs to be another way around this that I could come up with as a highly trained combatant”
Because Israel goes with the first one almost always.
You still didn’t answer my question. What is the other option here for Israel? Hamas backed them into a corner by launching missles from hospitals, schools, mosques, etc.
Hamas wants Palestinians to be killed more than anyone else in this situation. They’re basically daring Israel to attack civilian areas. They are trying to elicit a reaction exactly like the one you are exhibiting. Meanwhile Iran is laughing as they use Palestinians as cannon fodder in order to get people pissed at Israel and the west.
What other option is there for Israel other than just surrendering to Hamas?
You clearly don’t want to be gentle. What is the solution here? If Israel doesn’t defend itself than its residents will continue to be the subject of attacks by Hamas. What other option is there?
What country do you live in that would tolerate constant rocket attacks as well as now terrorist raids from their neighboring territory?
Well they could start doing the thing that would’ve prevented the attack in the first place, treat Palestinians like human beings. The main reason Hamas is in power is because Israel treats Palestinians like subhumans. Hamas wouldn’t be a thing if Israel and Palestine made peace and found a way to co-exist.
Is this some fucking joke to you? You think this is a mother fucking Video game?
This is war. It’s not supposed to be fair. It’s no more fair than when America steam rolled Iraq or Afghanistan. No more fair than when the Hamas terrorists with guns pulled those kids out of bed and shot them last week.
Hamas are terrorists. They need to be destroyed, that’s why the US pulled its forces into the region. If you think that’s for anything other reason than to ensure this threat is eliminated, you’re fucking crazy.
War sucks. Hamas is going to be eliminated. The sooner they stop with the human shields, the better for the people of Gaza.
Defend itself against what? It, the UK, and the US started it and refused to relent. Yeah I expect Israel to give the illegal settlements back entirely. They intentionally encouraged too many people to move in in order to justify illegal expansion. So yeah send them back, pay the immigrants for Israel’s fraud and con, and give the Palestinian’s their land back.
You steal someone’s car, and you make it right by giving it back and covering any damages. Just because Israel stole a really big “car” doesn’t change how right and wrong works. You give it back and apologize whether you’re a 3 year old or Netanyahu.
Did you not read the UN Convention on Genocide? You know, the things Jewish people said they’d never forget?
Here’s a PDF it’s only like 4 pages: https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.pdf
Whether or not it’s true if the population is increasing in spite of all of these things isn’t relevant. What’s relevant is that Israel is attempting several of them (only need 1 for it to be genocide), and they have been for several decades.
I found this gem today and couldn’t help but hare it
Let me quote some portions of the Hamas Covenant to you, and you tell me if you can find anything this insane in Israeli founding documents. Like it or not, Hamas has clearly stated its opposition to peace and its genocidal intent.
Intent is the difference.
And you are assuming I support Hamas. Could you please explain what led you to believe that? Because I don’t.
I posted that image to show how Israel doesn’t criticize itself when it commits genocide or ethnic cleansing but is quick to jump into conclusions and condemn their own enemy even though they are committing the same act.
I’m not assuming anything, I’m explaining that intent matters when considering whether genocide is happening. Hamas clearly has intent, Israel on the other hand? I’m willing to be convinced of course; certainly some officials have made genocidal statements, but I’m not aware of the official policy or stated aims of Israel being specifically genocidal the way Hamas is. Apartheid? Absolutely, and that’s bad enough.
Israel has attempted peace multiple times; I respect Arafat & the PLO for compromising and it’s a shame what happened with that process. Hamas considers these efforts a “contradiction to its principles” and a “waste of time”.
I agree. But to be honest your comment came out as sarcastic. Hamas don’t take issue in being clear about their own agendas. Israel does everything to hide it. You don’t need to find words like these in internal Israeli government documents. Their actions are enough. Nakba was ethnic cleansing. Today in Gaza is ethnic cleansing. Genocide is finally being used in the media as a word to describe the situation with accuracy.
You may be right about Netanyahu & Likud, anyway, and I’m certainly not saying the Palestinians don’t have every right to resist. I expect Israel’s stated aim, to destroy Hamas, is an honest one. I expect Gaza will be returned to the Palestinians when that goal is achieved, because again, I don’t see Israel as intentionally genocidal. I can’t say I’m not concerned that my expectations won’t be met, though.
Time will tell.
What would you have Israel do? Not defend itself? Because by doing so according to your logic Israel is committing genocide then.
If Hamas didn’t keep attacking Israel and instead focused on improving the lives for residents in Gaza then Israel would not attack them.
Also based on that link you cited and your logic palestinians are committing genocide against the Israelis
False dichotomy. There are more options than “do nothing” and “force the evacuation of an entire populated area before bombing the entire region to the stone age”. It doesn’t take a political genius to see that.
Ok what are the options then? Let’s hear them in your view
The onus is not on this random internet commenter to produce an alternative. Can you really not think of one thing Israel could do that doesn’t involve glassing what’s left of a country?
Let’s see what they propose. Or you for that matter?
If Al qaeda was based in Canada and constantly attacking New York what would the U.S. have done post 9/11? Just leave them alone?
The truth is there no good option here. Elimination of Hamas is the only option and it will be bloody for both sides, partially due to Hamas use of Palestinian citizens as human shields. Hopefully after Hamas is removed from power Palestinians can elect leaders who don’t call for the complete annihilation of Israel and Israelis can elect moderates who are open to negotiations as well.
Unless you are among those who think Israel should be dissolved in which case you are not actually interested in a peaceful solution for all sides.
Even if “eliminate Hamas” is the response, forcing the entire population out and bombing the whole fucking place is not the only way.
Doubly so, because if you kill and/or displace hundreds of thousands of civilians, how many of those do you think will remain civilians, and how many will subsequently be bolstering the numbers of Hamas?
What is the other option here other than Israel surrendering to Hamas?
Give the Palestinians full rights, return their stolen land, compensate them for this genocide, I have more just ping me
So you’re not interested in a solution that is realistic (ie allows the state of Israel to remain). Guess you don’t actually want peace.
Actually, I believe in a one-state solution where it’s renamed back to Palestine (you know, to return the culture Israel tried to erase) with a single government of both Palestinians and Jews where everyone has full rights and gets to vote. All the former Israelis can stay. Those who have committed war crimes (weather from Israel’s side or otherwise) would be tried.
Jewish people should not have to be kicked out of their homes like they did to the Palestinians. “Never again” applies to everyone. They should be allowed to stay, but not settlers who have physically stolen homes from Palestinians in the past few years (and injured or killed many of them), those can fuck off to jail.
What you are calling for is a fantasy. The second Israelis did that they would be wiped out.
I live in reality - and we all need to - if we want this situation to finally come to a peaceful conclusion.
By the way I agree with you regarding the settlements. They are a provocation and moderate Israelis need to stop them and hopefully will once Netanyahu and his rightwing cronies are thrown out of office.
The reality is that this is caused by decades of oppression and the first step to stop it is to stop the oppression,
Seems like absolutely no one has a problem with that. It’s just when Israel bombs hospitals and shit and then says Hamas was doing whatever there, that’s where people are drawing the line.
Hamas literally is launching rockets from hospitals, schools, etc.
Sure, yes, so some “terrorist” throws bombs at you from a hospital full of children. Do you bomb the hospital? yes or no?
“Throw bombs”
More like launch missles into civilian areas intentionally. You’re really understating the situation.
Also by the way your solution is to just let Hamas continue intentionally attacking civilian targets? What country on the planet would allow their neighbor to do that?
Hmmm… and yet nowhere did I say that. I’m seriously asking…
If you were in the IDF, Hamas fired from inside a hospital full of children, do you shoot at the hospital knowing that at least a few children will be hit?
I think the question is clear. So yes or no?
So yes or no, @player1@sh.itjust.works?
Do you shoot at the hospital and say these kids were killed by your enemy even though it was your own bullet that hit them?
Or do you say, “oh shit yeah these kids are just like my own, I can’t shoot this hospital, there needs to be another way around this that I could come up with as a highly trained combatant”
Because Israel goes with the first one almost always.
You still didn’t answer my question. What is the other option here for Israel? Hamas backed them into a corner by launching missles from hospitals, schools, mosques, etc.
Hamas wants Palestinians to be killed more than anyone else in this situation. They’re basically daring Israel to attack civilian areas. They are trying to elicit a reaction exactly like the one you are exhibiting. Meanwhile Iran is laughing as they use Palestinians as cannon fodder in order to get people pissed at Israel and the west.
What other option is there for Israel other than just surrendering to Hamas?
Removed by mod
You clearly don’t want to be gentle. What is the solution here? If Israel doesn’t defend itself than its residents will continue to be the subject of attacks by Hamas. What other option is there?
What country do you live in that would tolerate constant rocket attacks as well as now terrorist raids from their neighboring territory?
Nice pivot. Didn’t work, but good try.
What a fucking joke. I guess just pretend you don’t know how power dynamics work.
I’m genuinely curious. What would you have Israel do in response to last weeks attacks?
Well they could start doing the thing that would’ve prevented the attack in the first place, treat Palestinians like human beings. The main reason Hamas is in power is because Israel treats Palestinians like subhumans. Hamas wouldn’t be a thing if Israel and Palestine made peace and found a way to co-exist.
Give the land back.
Power dynamics?
Is this some fucking joke to you? You think this is a mother fucking Video game?
This is war. It’s not supposed to be fair. It’s no more fair than when America steam rolled Iraq or Afghanistan. No more fair than when the Hamas terrorists with guns pulled those kids out of bed and shot them last week.
Hamas are terrorists. They need to be destroyed, that’s why the US pulled its forces into the region. If you think that’s for anything other reason than to ensure this threat is eliminated, you’re fucking crazy.
War sucks. Hamas is going to be eliminated. The sooner they stop with the human shields, the better for the people of Gaza.
Dumbest shit I’ve ever seen.
Yes, I’m making up the concept of power dynamics. I took them from video games. Unbelievable.
Defend itself against what? It, the UK, and the US started it and refused to relent. Yeah I expect Israel to give the illegal settlements back entirely. They intentionally encouraged too many people to move in in order to justify illegal expansion. So yeah send them back, pay the immigrants for Israel’s fraud and con, and give the Palestinian’s their land back.
You steal someone’s car, and you make it right by giving it back and covering any damages. Just because Israel stole a really big “car” doesn’t change how right and wrong works. You give it back and apologize whether you’re a 3 year old or Netanyahu.