Obviously this is a pretty international forum, and a comrade asked before which languages we speak, but which languages are you working on? Which ones do you aspire to learn someday even if you aren’t learning it now? I’m a Yank so I know English and took about 5 years of Spanish in HS, I was in the advanced classes, but it was years ago so I can understand Spanish, but I can’t speak it really. I’m learning Russian now because I’ve sorta been learning it informally my whole life, my grandma being born in early 30s rural Belarus meant she always wanted to pass that on to me, she spoke an Eastern dialect of Polish but knew Belarussian and spoke fluent Russian. I just knew basic basic Russian as a kid like Принесите Пожалуйста and Спасибо mixed with other phrases that were very local to her. In the past 2-3 years I decided to officially learn Russian bc the rest of my family is very American (I don’t blame them, that’s where we live and consume the vast vast majority of our entertainment/content from) the Irish side of my family doesn’t give a shit about the history of Ireland nor do any of them speak any word of Gaelic Irish, so at least by learning Russian I can communicate to a few cousins from the old country and my grandma. Realistically speaking Spanish would be most useful to me, being in the US, but if I finish learning Russian I wanna learn Arabic. I want to learn Chinese but goddamn thats one of the toughest ones to learn. I feel like Arabic would be cool to learn. What are yall thinking?

  • Kultronx@lemmygrad.ml
    12·
    2 年前

    Chinese isn’t as hard as some people think. The hardest part is learning all the characters, but other than that the grammar is pretty simple. Learning multiple languages gives you linguistic analysis skills and views you can’t really get anywhere else. You don’t realize how much of an anglo you are until you are no longer in the anglosphere.

    I have 4 years of experience in German, 8 in French, 3 in Spanish, 2 in Chinese, and off and on Russian/Greek.

      • Kultronx@lemmygrad.ml
        1·
        2 年前

        I have yes, with French/English but I would probably need another few years of serious study to reach that level and I’m not really prepared to do that career wise at the moment.

    • ButtigiegMineralMap@lemmygrad.mlOP
      3·
      2 年前

      Be completely honest, is it plausible for me to learn Russian and Mandarin or is that naïve of me to assume I could pick up 2 very different languages (from the perspective of a Yank that only speaks English and very little Spanish)? If so I am genuinely interested in learning Simplified Mandarin Chinese

      • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
        3·
        2 年前

        It’s more than plausible but you need to put the time in. If you search Lemmygrad for FSI you should see some of my other comments on how long it takes to learn languages.

        With the right program you can get conversational quite quickly, but mastering the language will take a long time. The joy is that once you’re conversational, you can engage with native content and it’s no longer a chore from that point. The trick is to make it as fun as possible—whatever you need to do to get enough exposure.

        If @Munrock@lemmygrad.ml is right about HelloChinese it could be a good start. I’d mix it with Listening-Reading, with which method you can ‘natural listen’ to native audiobooks within a month of 12-hour days (250 hours total, extreme but effective, although it does require you to read a grammar and make notes before starting). Once you can understand the spoken language it becomes a lot easier. You can then listen to a familiar book and follow a parallel text to absorb the meaning of the characters in a (relative) flash.

        Chinese is often said to be hard for native English speakers. But most of the difficulty is the writing system. I’ve heard from people who focused on listening and speaking that it’s just as quick as any other language (maybe not quite so easy as Spanish, French, or Dutch). Then the characters do take time, but not as much time as if you try to learn the characters at the same time. How to achieve this? Search Lemmygrad for ‘Listening-Reading’.

        One hurdle with Chinese is access to native content from within the West. I don’t have any tips for this, I’m afraid.

        One hurdle with any foreign language is grammar. If you’re like me, you won’t understand English grammar enough. So the first task is to read or skim a book on English grammar. Then when you come across terms like preterite, conditional, imperfect, infinitive, conjugation, etc, in relation to the target language, it’ll actually make sense. Once you work this out with one foreign language it gets easier and easier with the second and third, etc.

        One warning. If you search the internet for advice you’ll come across the idea that you only need to do one thing. Usually, it’s ‘just get input’. While you do need comprensible input, nothing is comprehensible until you’ve mastered at least a bit of grammar and quite a bit of vocab. Don’t do what I did and waste a year watching foreign TV without subtitles hoping you’ll magically acquire the language.

        Use every aid you can think of to help make the language comprehensible – but make sure you are taking the time to understand the target language rather than relying on the aid! (This is the basis of the listening-reading method.)

        • Kultronx@lemmygrad.ml
          2·
          2 年前

          There are a lot of youtube channels out there with Mandarin content from native speakers, tv shows from China, etc, as well as western students who can explain concepts really well for anglos like this one

        • Munrock ☭@lemmygrad.ml
          2·
          2 年前

          One hurdle with Chinese is access to native content from within the West. I don’t have any tips for this, I’m afraid.

          For Putonghua, try Bilibili. China’s answer to youtube. Might have to use a vpn depending on your location.

          There’s also echinesesong.com which is just tons of Chinese songs with lyrics pinyin, 汉字 and sometimes English translations. Use an ad blocker for that one.

  • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmygrad.mlBanned
    8·
    2 年前

    Not learning but I have marked the most important languages in upcoming times to learn, Spanish, Mandarin and Russian. Since I know Hindi and English, that will make me pretty well rounded.

      • Munrock ☭@lemmygrad.ml
        4·
        2 年前

        For anyone wanting to learn, I recommend an app called HelloChinese.

        It’s similar to Duolingo in many ways, but goes above and beyond. Phrases are individually recorded instead of stitched together by a synthesizer. They go out and get volunteers on the street to record some lines. Every unit has a 15-minute podcast attached to it.

        It gives loads of additional material to practice on in addition to the core teaching units. I used to use a combination of Duolingo and a reader app called ‘The Chairman’s Bao’ which offered graded texts, but HelloChinese does both and it’s so much better when the two are coordinated.

        I can’t recommend it enough.

  • smrtfasizmu@lemmygrad.ml
    7·
    2 年前

    I’m currently stuck in intermediate purgatory in Spanish (I can understand a lot but I struggle to construct my own sentences). I love the language, as well as Latin America, and I really want to become fluent.

    After Spanish, there’s maybe 2 more languages in which I would like to be fluent (Russian and Mandarin) and a few more in which I would like to be more or less conversational (Romanian, Hungarian, Korean, Persian, Cantonese, Serbian)

    • Kultronx@lemmygrad.ml
      5·
      2 年前

      Based. Good luck. It’s hard to find Cree related information online, and it’s often only specific to a certain region due to the varied dialects of the language.

  • Absolute@lemmygrad.ml
    6·
    2 年前

    I’m trying to work on my French since im in Canada. Took it in school for quite a while so I have some basis of vocabulary and grammar but I really struggle with listening comprehension and constructing sentences (unless im drunk for some reason).

    I took a Mandarin course in uni but I simply did not have the time (or focus) required to do the studying needed when considering I had other courses, full time job, social life ect.

    I’d like to really work on my French this year and use it to develop some good study habits that I could hopefully apply to learning other languages like Spanish or Mandarin.

    Anyone have any good study tips they wanna share ? I have ADHD so struggle with building good habits like this but I must persevere. I’m also curious what sort of software, books, sites ect people here recommend for language learning ? I’ve heard good things about Pimsleur but have yet to try it. Also have used Ankhi (sp?) for vocab in the past and will prob try that again.

    • mrshll1001@lemmygrad.ml
      6·
      2 年前

      Anyone have any good study tips they wanna share ? I have ADHD so struggle with building good habits like this but I must persevere

      I was diagnosed with ADHD in 2022, at the age of 30, and am awaiting a formal ASD diagnosis (psychiatrist strongly suspected it but couldn’t diagnose in the meeting because meeting was for ADHD only). So I’ve got a lot of years of coping mechanisms for studying.

      With my mix of ADHD and ASD I love routines but struggle to build new ones or add new habits. I build new routines and habits by hanging new habits off of existing ones. I already religiously brush my teeth; so I decided to moisturise beforehand every time. After a while the new habit grows. I then personally find that once I’ve developed the new habit, it’s a lot easier to move it about to a new “home” in my life/routine if appropriate.

      Applied to language learning I would recommend doing a quick survey of your existing daily or weekly rhythm (I won’t assume a routine yet!). Are there any touchstones that remain relatively consistent across the days / weeks? Basic stuff like brushing teeth, washing. Maybe going to and from school/college/work? Food? Even if these things aren’t consistent in terms of the time of day (maybe your mealtimes are erratic), are they at least consistent across the week? e.g. do you always manage to eat at least one or two meals a day? If yes; great. You’re off to a good start. Remember these are examples; you’re looking for the patterns in your own life. Depending on the severity of your struggle with ADHD you might have more or less to work with.

      Once you’ve spotted them, apply the language learning habit to these patterns as appropriate. 5 mins while food is cooking, or maybe listening to / watching something in the target language as you eat. Or maybe taking 5 mins to digest food while you practice or revise some vocab. Start small, build momentum. Don’t fret disruptions. You absolutely will forget and drop it. Even after years I still do this. Just forgive yourself and try to hit the next timeslot.

      Once you’re happy with where you’re at with your consistency, take a second to evaluate. How would you feel with moving the habit about now? Is there a better “home” for it in the rhythm of your day or week? Maybe when you get up, or before/after you brush your teeth? Or are you happy with it where it is? Either answer is fine, just checking in with yourself is the aim

      • Absolute@lemmygrad.ml
        2·
        2 年前

        Hey thank you for the response, I really appreciate it. It is always fascinating to hear how people manage things like this, or just how other’s brains work in general. I was diagnosed last year as well at the age of 25. I’m the same way with loving routine and consistency but struggling to add new habits. The tip you mentioned about “hanging” new habits off of old ones is a good one, and something I’ve been gradually trying to implement in various areas of life in the past while.

        All of the questions you’ve posited are good ones. I have definitely been trying to recognize patterns in my life and trying to understand how they influence the way I act and feel, ect. I also must remember to take to heart your advice about going slow, not fretting mistakes and what not.

        At the moment I’m balancing working two jobs and taking courses at a local trades college as well, in addition to just being a single guy who is still kinda coming to grips with being a “functional” adult and all of the responsibilities that come with that. As such things like language learning haven’t been a primary concern, but I would like to gradually start implementing it into my routine. I see no reason why I can’t replace 15 minutes of scrolling facebook or whatever with 15 minutes of vocabulary studying. Just about building up to it I guess.

        Once again thank you truly for the response, it has given me plenty to consider.

        • mrshll1001@lemmygrad.ml
          1·
          2 年前

          You’re very welcome. That sounds like a lot to balance, especially with ADHD. Good luck comrade, I know you can do it!

    • Kultronx@lemmygrad.ml
      4·
      2 年前

      my biggest tip would be to make sure you study every day and mix it up. i use duolingo, Anki, videos, phone/computer in the language, games in the language, etc

  • SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.ml
    6·
    2 年前

    I’m learning Portuguese right now, a mix of European and Brazilian. My family is European Portuguese but Brazilian is more accessible in terms of lessons and I like some of the pronunciations better. Both my parents were born in Portugal and thus it was their first language. Even though my mom was raised in Canada, English is her second language. So even with a family of immigrants my first language is English, I grew up knowing some Portuguese words but I could never speak it. It makes me sad that I wasn’t raised to speak both proficiently; English at school, Portuguese at home. So now that I’m an adult I’m trying to learn to speak it, which is surprisingly difficult despite having Portuguese speakers around constantly. I mean, the Portuguese news station is always on TV and I’ve been watching shows and movies and TikTok’s with Portuguese subtitles to try and immerse myself more.

    • ButtigiegMineralMap@lemmygrad.mlOP
      2·
      2 年前

      It seems we are in a somewhat similar boat comrade. We both know a bit of the language of our ancestors and seek to learn more, all the best to you!

  • StarLinsang@lemmygrad.ml
    5·
    2 年前

    I’m trying to pick up learning Spanish again, I took a quite a few classes in the past however I kind of forgot almost all of it. I also remember my grandma trying to teach Spanish to me as well, and it would be nice to make her happy that I learned it. There are a few other languages that I would love to learn like Russian or Mandarin, but I have a problem of getting too distracted and then I don’t end up learning anything because I spread myself to thin and don’t get anything done. So Spanish for now, hopefully!

    • ButtigiegMineralMap@lemmygrad.mlOP
      2·
      2 年前

      Lol funny you mention your grandma speaking Spanish. My grandma that speaks Russian actually knows a lot of Spanish too bc she was a refugee as a child. I forget the timelines and details but she lived in Iran for a few months and lived in Mexico for a few months before coming to the US. So she actually sorta speaks most of the languages I aspire to learn about. She spoke fluent Spanish bc she said it was easy to pick up, Arabic was way tougher for her and she only knows 3-4 phrases which is impressive for her age

      • StarLinsang@lemmygrad.ml
        1·
        2 年前

        Your grandma is very intelligent! It also sounds like she been through a lot? But I imagine she has a lot of things to talk about, but she seems really cool. I wish I knew more about my grandma and my dad’s side of my family, like you do. I just know my grandma was born in New Mexico, and that from my dad side is that we’re Hispanic, but that’s about it. I really want to get to know my grandma more, but it feels like I can’t ask to her about what her family like or what it was like for her growing up. Oh also it would be cool to learn Arabic to, especially with like how beautiful the writing of that language is.

      • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
        1·
        2 年前

        They’re both FSI category five languages. For professional working proficiency (e.g to be a US diplomat or military translator) that’s roughly 2200 hours of self study, plus a course of ~6 hours a day, five days a week, for 88 weeks. It won’t take that long to start enjoying native content and having conversations. But they’re both about the same level of difficulty for native English speakers.

        • ButtigiegMineralMap@lemmygrad.mlOP
          1·
          2 年前

          Interesting, perhaps I’ll learn Chinese. They have the largest population, they’re a growing economy so it never hurts to understand it in the future for jobs, and most importantly I’ll be able to sing some Maoist bangers from 60s China

          • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
            2·
            2 年前

            It’s a great language to learn.

            Look into LR. For reference, for Spanish, I LR’d two books twice. The first was 31 hours. The second was 47 hours. That’s 156 hours in total. Afterwards, I could listen to and understand Harry Potter. I listened to the first four before getting bored. Some books, accents, shows, etc, are still difficult for me now. You have to find the right materials. There are fewer cognates between English and Chinese, so it will be a little more difficult. But if you learn a bit of grammar then ‘assault’ the language (lots of exposure all in a burst), it might not take as long as you think to build listening comprehension.

            Here’s the “inventor’s” website: https://web.archive.org/web/20221004162508/http://users.bestweb.net/~siom/martian_mountain/! L-R the most important passages.htm

            An extract (with some omissions):

            ‘LISTENING-Reading’ in a teeny-weeny nutshell

            Beauty is in the ear of the beholder, or, to put it bluntly, LISTEN (L2) and read (L1). (And use your second favourite organ – your head.)

            (L1 = your mother tongue, L2 = the language you’re learning)

            LOVE + ‘LISTENING-Reading’ (incubation period and then natural listening) + PRONUNCIATION + Assault = reading + speaking + writing.

            Use LONG novels right from the outset. If the languages are different the first three to five hours should be translated word for word. If they are related (or you already know quite a bit about L2), it is not necessary.

            I mean, basically, there are only two skills to master: listening comprehension and pronunciation. Usually completely ignored, I must add. The rest (reading, speaking, writing) follows almost naturally with just tiny little bits of additional efforts. Yes, and that’s true even – or particularly so – for languages with ‘whimsical’ script (Chinese, Japanese L-R).

            Learning a language HAPPENS on its own. All you need is personally relevant massive exposure. And… you must pay lovingly tender attention to what’s happening before your ears and eyes. And in your soul – love, joy, and soul shattering awe should be your guides.

            Language is a system of interdependent elements: sounds (phonemes, tones, pitch accent, stress, rhythm, intonation), words (combinations of sounds that carry meaning), phrases and sentences (combinations of words), and texts (spoken and written, combinations of all the above). Only TEXTS carry personally relevant real life meanings and EMOTIONS.

            If you want to learn a language quickly you’ll need

            1. a recording performed by good actors or narrators in the language you want to learn
            1. the original text (of the recording)
            1. a translation into your own language or a language you understand
            1. the text(s) should be long: novels are best

            You may wonder: why long texts? Because of the IDIOLECT of the author; it manifests itself fully in the first ten–twenty pages: it is very important in learning quickly without cramming.

            The key factor in learning a language is EXPOSURE, that is how much NEW text you will be able to perceive in a unit of time. There is a physical limit here, you can’t understand any faster than the text reaches your brain. That is why you ought to SIMULTANEOUSLY read the translation and listen to the original recording: that provides the fastest exposure.

            You must ENJOY (AWE) the text you’re going to listen to.

            Parallel texts are extremely useful. The more difficult the text, the more useful they become. The columns shouldn’t be too wide, not more than eight cm, you can jump from one column to the other if necessary without stopping the recording too often. E-texts are more useful, you can use a pop-up dictionary, you can change the font, make it bigger or smaller – it is particularly useful for Japanese and Chinese.

            The most difficult language in the world. Esperanto, definitely. As some wise guy said the only difficult language is the one you don’t want to learn.

            I suppose all languages are about the same, none is more or less difficult than any other.

            Gathering appropriate materials is the only difficulty. And THAT can be extremely difficult.

            I found Mandarin to be very easy indeed. A few days ago I was studying some numbers in various languages. I still remember four of them in Chinese: 一, 二, 三, 十. To my surprise, they were the same in Japanese – so I killed 二 birds鳥 with 一 stone石.

            Hope this is motivating!