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66 votes and 65 comments so far on Reddit
  • Muad'Dibber@lemmygrad.ml
    411·
    2 years ago

    The CPC has lifted more people out of poverty than any country in history, in easily the greatest achievement of the last few decades. When MLMs actually acheive anything other than killing peasants and ultraleft terrorism, than we’ll listen to what they have to say.

    It’s also completely predictable that the only “left” communities allowed on reddit, are those that oppose existing communist states. It was that way in the cold war (only anti-USSR ultralefts were tolerated in public discourse in western media), and it remains that way today.

    • zymefish@lemmygrad.ml
      24·
      2 years ago

      Ironically, by claiming that China is “not really socialist” and is instead some kind of capitalist state, are the anti-PRC westoid leftist types implicitly praising capitalism? Isn’t that the same as claiming that capitalism lifted all those millions of Chinese people out of poverty? 🤔

      The inability of the human mind to correlate all of its contents…

      • Neptium@lemmygrad.ml
        15·
        2 years ago

        I do wonder how the few people who are critical of China but concede that China has lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty thinks they managed to do it.

        Do they just think China through their own authoritarianismTM just outlawed poverty?

        Or do they actually recognise the massive undertaking of mobilizing and organizing millions of people into the countryside to directly tackle the problems of those most affected?

  • Munrock ☭@lemmygrad.ml
    341·
    2 years ago

    The Belt And Road Initiative will have to continue without r/communism101’s approval.

    All the nations, demographics and people who are able to use this alternative to Western imperialism to liberate themselves will have to do so knowing that people who learn their communism from reddit will sternly disapprove.

    If parts of the Western World reject the notion that “a rising tide lifts all boats” because they read on the internet that China and the BRI are imperialist, who can disagree with them? Liberals are never wrong, after all. They can cling defiantly to the rock bottom capitalism has driven them to and laugh at the rest of us for being so gullible while the tide rises around them.

    • Muad'Dibber@lemmygrad.ml
      281·
      2 years ago

      Indeed, the millions of dedicated communists in the PRC eliminating poverty should stop and ask themselves, “Am I being social imperialist? What would r/communism think?”

        • Muad'Dibber@lemmygrad.ml
          24·
          2 years ago

          Seriously tho, the PRC is treading their own path to communism, already learned the lessons of the dangers of ultraleftism, and don’t need to be educated by western maoists on that topic. If anything, the westerners should be doing more listening and learning from SWCC, and less talking.

        • frippa@lemmy.mlOP
          16·
          2 years ago

          self-crit is a big thing in the CPC from the times of Mao, maoists dont even know their beloved

    • frippa@lemmy.mlOP
      16·
      2 years ago

      True, the maoist anti-modern China crowd isn’t that active in real life eitherway

  • CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.ml
    23·
    2 years ago

    r/communism discord held 3 days of mourning for Gonzalo so, you know. + cassia is still a mod there. They’re jesters who think themselves royalty for having coined r/communism and r/communism101.

  • 201dberg@lemmygrad.ml
    81·
    2 years ago

    I’d venture to say there’s less than 0.001% CPC members that HAVEN’T done more for communism by themself than all of the mods of the “official” reddit communist subs combined.

    I’d venture even farther to say that most of those mods are feds anyway. At the very least the narrative is controlled and any real communist should probably already be banned if they are actually going there with serious intentions.

  • pancake@lemmy.ml
    108·
    2 years ago

    I mean, China has sacrificed some specific Marxist ideas in the short-term (edit: meaning “dealyed until safe”, not “reverted” or “abandoned”) in order to avoid being destroyed by the West like the USSR was. So it makes sense that some paranoid Marxists want to wait and see how the situation evolves before making their minds on the issue. I believe in the Communist leadership of China, but I can’t blame others for being more skeptical.

    • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
      283·
      2 years ago

      I mean even Michael Parenti said China is capitalist in 1998. In 2023 we can clearly say it’s not the case but it was definitely looking very suspicious in the 90’s.

      That said, most of western maoists are by no means Parenti who himself admitted being led astray by the western narrations in some cases. They are just petty bourgeoise posers who actually follows their own class interests by aligning with imperialism, even if unconsciously.

      Deng made a huge leap of faith into the future. If the next generations failed, we would all be now calling him a next Gorbachev, regardless of his real intentions.

      • Beat_da_Rich@lemmygrad.ml
        10·
        2 years ago

        Communism was in a precarious state post-USSR. It makes sense that past analysts even from people like Parenti don’t hold up well in hindsight. The entire communist movement was in the unfortunate position of having to make concessions to capital.

        • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
          91·
          2 years ago

          Yes i know. 90’s were terrible for every AES and reqired hard moves to survive, interestingly enough they all survived and defended their socialism.

      • Makan@lemmygrad.ml
        59·
        2 years ago

        Michael Parenti is also for U.S. patriotism.

        Michael Parenti is not an authoritative theorist; stop treating him as one.

        • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
          193·
          2 years ago

          Michael Parenti is also for U.S. patriotism.

          That’s pretty irrelevant in that discussion. I also don’t think everything he ever wrote and said needs to be cancelled because of it, even if that’s true.

          is not an authoritative theorist

          Agree, good that i never said that. What he is though, is influental and popular debunker of bourgeois myths and popularisator of basic marxist theory. And as such literally everyone here already heard of him and most likely read some of his books or articles - the most popular being “Blackshirts and Reds” which is where he made that conclusion about China. Which furthermore looks entirely like glossing over the topic in literally one sentence precisely because being misled by the US information bubble.

        • Muad'Dibber@lemmygrad.ml
          15·
          2 years ago

          It scarcely needs proof that there is not the slightest possibility of carrying out these tasks in a short period, of accomplishing all this in a few years. Therefore, the dictatorship of the proletariat, the transition from capitalism to communism, must not be regarded as a fleeting period of “super-revolutionary” acts and decrees, but as an entire historical era, replete with civil wars and external conflicts, with persistent organisational work and economic construction, with advances and retreats, victories and defeats. The historical era is needed not only to create the economic and cultural prerequisites for the complete victory of socialism, but also to enable the proletariat, firstly, to educate itself and become steeled as a force capable of governing the country, and, secondly, to re-educate and remould the petty-bourgeois strata along such lines as will assure the organisation of socialist production.

          • Stalin

          it is only possible to achieve real liberation in the real world by employing real means, that slavery cannot be abolished without the steam-engine and the mule and spinning-jenny, serfdom cannot be abolished without improved agriculture, and that, in general, people cannot be liberated as long as they are unable to obtain food and drink, housing and clothing in adequate quality and quantity. “Liberation” is an historical and not a mental act, and it is brought about by historical conditions, the development of industry, commerce, agriculture, the conditions of intercourse.

          • Karl Marx, “The German Ideology”
            • TranslatorBot@lemmygrad.mlB
              5·
              2 years ago

              几乎不需要证明，在短时间内完成这些任务，在几年内完成这一切，没有丝毫的可能性。因此，无产阶级专政，从资本主义向共产主义的过渡，不能被视为 "超级革命 "行为和法令的短暂时期，是整个历史时代的，充满了内战和外部冲突，充满了持续的组织工作和经济建设，充满了前进和退却、胜利和失败。这个历史时代不仅需要为社会主义的完全胜利创造经济和文化前提，而且还需要使无产阶级首先教育自己，成为能够治理国家的钢铁力量，其次，按照保证社会主义生产组织的方针重新教育和改造小资产阶级阶层。

              • 斯大林

              只有采用真正的手段才能在现实世界中实现真正的解放，没有蒸汽机、骡子和纺纱机就不能废除奴隶制，没有改良农业就不能废除农奴制，一般来说，只要人们不能获得质量和数量都足够的食物和饮料、住房和衣服，就不能获得解放。"解放 "是一种历史行为，而不是一种精神行为，它是由历史条件、工业、商业、农业的发展、交往的条件带来的。

              • 卡尔-马克思，“德意志意识形态”

              这段文字是用DeepL。

      • pancake@lemmy.ml
        7·
        2 years ago

        No, I’m not talking about markets per se. But there are different stages of socialism and China is in a pretty young stage at the moment, compared to a country like NK. There are still plenty of changes ahead, which will need to happen as the complex geopolitical situation in the world allows, notably as the West starts becoming less of a threat to socialism worldwide.

          • pancake@lemmy.ml
            9·
            2 years ago

            I’m sorry, I mischose my wording. They did not abandon any ideas or revert any socialist policies. By “sacrificing” I meant they chose to remain in a particular stage of socialism and delay any further advances in the path of socialism until the conditions allow. This is in perfect accordance with the revolutionary principles outlined by Lenin and even Mao (e.g. On Contradiction), and I see no problem with that strategy.

    • frippa@lemmy.mlOP
      103·
      2 years ago

      True, skepticism of China isn’t that hard to get, but maoist are on another level