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Jesus fucking Christ
Have they already gone through the billions in weapons we’ve already given them?
Billions don’t go through as many hospitals as they used to.
This article is inaccurate or at least misleading in its title presentation. It’s reporting on something that happened on October 20th, as the second paragraph notes, and was never actually enacted. In fact, Biden moved back from this and has been instead moving to restrict all weaponry sales to Israel in the past few days.
Biden has not been in any form of good light in my eyes in the past two months, but please don’t spread fake or misleading information like this.
It’s reporting on something that happened on October 20th, as the second paragraph notes, and was never actually enacted.
It’s reporting on a budget request filed on October 20th. The requests pertain to fiscal year 2024. It’s still set before the Senate to be voted on.
Do you have a source for him moving to restrict sales? I see there was a House bill about that a couple weeks ago, but it didn’t involve Biden.
That doesn’t fit the us vs them narrative OP wants you to accept. How’s your down vote count looking?
No downvotes, actually, surprisingly. 29 upvotes.
What the actual fuck
My exact reaction too. They’re just steamrolling civilians in Gaza. I guess our relationship with them as an armed ally in the area is more important than some light genocide.
Just my opinion, but we knew this would happen eventually. I’m in my 40s and remember hearing enough about Israel in my teens and 20s that I’ve always thought of them as the “wish a motherfucker would” type. And here we are.
Oh good we’re giving more weapons to the genocidal regime that attacked our warship, interfered in our elections, and illegally acquired nukes, all on our dime.
Biden, elected by the youth vote, essentially retiring with this move, but still running so as to ensure a trump victory so they don’t need to enforce any troublesome laws.
And you get a genocide and you get a… No, just Israel actually.
I’ve been trying to convince my parents that this is absofuckinglutely genocide. It has not gone well. They are convinced that Israel is simply defending themselves, and all the civilian casualties are just how war is.
You could make the comparison with Russia’s actions towards Ukraine. Is it “just war” when Russia intentionally bombs children’s schools and hospitals? Most countries are civilized enough to only target military targets during a war. It’s also worth pointing out that modern missiles do not “accidentally” hit the wrong target, that’s about as likely as shooting a gun and “accidentally” hitting your friend standing behind you.
Some estimates say over one million Iraqis were killed during the American invasion and occupation.
Americans aren’t civilized, just entitled. (Yes, I’m an American)
Most countries are civilized enough to only target military targets during a war.
all the humane wars out there
Yeah I know… There’s no escaping it, people are dumb.
Bad comparison. Did Ukraine provoke Russia to war by slaughtering thousands of Russian civilians? That’s what makes it self-defense. Were Ukranians using hospitals and their inhabitants as human shields? No, they weren’t, and that’s what justified Israel’s attacks on them. According to the IDF, they were attacking military targets.
So by your reasoning, Palestine was perfectly justified in their actions since Israel had already slaughtered thousands of their civilians, right? It’s not like that attack came out of nowhere, Israel has been murdering Palestinian civilians for decades. Also keep in mind that the only “proof” of Hamas using their hospital as human shields actually came from the IDF, all the articles I’ve seen on the subject have stated that no independent source has been able to confirm any of the propaganda that the IDF is putting out.
This conflict is long enough that either side has plenty of cassus belli to choose from, moral justification isn’t as relevant here as Gaza’s realpolitik situation. Hamas poked the bear, and started a war with a military conflict they cannot win against. No amount of outrage will change this. Israel’s response is totally predictable. Hamas wanted to start a war, and they got one; perhaps having them as leaders wasn’t a good idea. They clearly see Palestinians as expendable, and are happy to create a situation that causes many dead civilians provided they can parade them in front of cameras and make Israel look bad.
all the articles I’ve seen on the subject have stated that no independent source has been able to confirm any of the propaganda that the IDF is putting out.
And yet just a few days later that “evidence” was already being questioned. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/17/idf-evidence-so-far-falls-well-short-of-al-shifa-hospital-being-hamas-hq
Sorry to chime in on this - it was an interesting debate!
The problem I have with your link (and I’m not really interested in getting into the other details, I’m too new to this conflict), is that it came from the white house - that’s screams of the IDF going to their big brother and asking for them to vouch for them - it’s like the least independent source possible (other than the IDF or Hamas, of course!)
Perhaps. It’s good to be skeptical but foolish to assume we know better than those who have access to intelligence we do not. It could be that they are making this up to support Israel, but far more likely they have similar sources for their information. The consequences for getting caught lying about something like this would be significant.
For the record, it appears they were telling the truth. CNN just sent a reporter to Al-Shifa who verified Israel’s claims.
Did it justify the bombs and artillery strikes that have killed 13k+ civilians?
Yes, if said attacks were against valid military targets and those civilian deaths were collateral damage. Consider the alternatives for Israel: 1) Send troops in without air support into hostile urban guerilla territory, resulting in heavy casualties, or 2) Do not retaliate for Oct 7, encouraging further future attacks and proving human shield tactics effective. From a game theory point of view, both of these are colossally stupid moves that would result in more Israeli deaths.
If you want to blame anyone for said civilian deaths, blame the terrorist government that provoked the attack while using them as human shields.
I don’t for one second believe that the damage done is unavoidable collateral damage. You would have to be seriously brainwashed to think that.
Prove it isn’t.
So what you’re saying is that innocent civilian deaths are deserved and you are in support of them? For example, if there was a school hostage situation in your hometown, law enforcement should bomb the whole place, children and all! After seeing all of the easily debunked lies IDF puts out, it’s hard to trust any single thing they say.
deserved != justified
If someone takes hostages they should be taken out even if it might mean collateral damage. Doing otherwise encourages more hostage taking in the future. Police actions do not need air support.
after seeing all of the easily debunked lies IDF puts out
Citation? The only IDF lie I’m aware of was when that Palestinian reporter lady was capped by IDF and they initially lied about the circumstances, but later admitted it and apologized.
Here’s a pretty good thread https://twitter.com/joemayall/status/1725285942104105158
Thanks, but I am unable to see the thread, all I see is a post citing a photo of soldiers in Al-Shifa hospital claiming it is a lie with no context or sources. Perhaps it’s because I don’t have a twitter account?
I believe it’s well established by now that Hamas made the hospital a military target, both by building a tunnel network under the hospital and having their soldiers hide kidnapped people from Oct.7 within it.
Here’s a good intro video for them:
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
How Palestine became Colonized
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
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Not sure if you’re a troll or just horribly uninformed but Israel has been illegaly occupying Palestine for over 50 years and does not have the right to use military force in occupied Palestine.
You have some seriously warped perspective. Israel is indeed committing actual genocide and ethic cleansing. They want to destroy Palestine and relocate what people are left, if any, into other countries. They have been creating illegal settlements for many many years if you want some context for this strategy.
Israel is not “defending” itself. For example, sniping innocent doctors and patients and destroying a hospital is not self defense. The al shifa hospital also has not been found to be a Hamas base… 15 guns and a tunnel are not a military base. If it was, this still would not justify those actions. The scale of this “defense” is really disgusting, especially when Israel has been oppressing the people of Palestine for many decades.
There’s nothing genocide Joe loves more than bombing brown people. Reminder that this is the same piece of human garbage that voted for the invasion of Iraq in which US regime massacred over a million people.
But Ukraine can’t even get enough AGTMs and shells. God forbid mentioning atacms, almost two fucking years!
I can’t believe that Netanjahu is more trustworthy than Zaluzhny.
all US puppets suffer the same fate in the end
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Here we have a smooth brained individual still bleating about Kremlin stooges. Absolutely incredible stuff.
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Before we proceed to discuss this valuable political point, what is your opinion on JWBush’s 1990 speech in Verkhovna Rada? Or you are of that bunch who thought oatmeal cookies on Maidan in 2014 were how these ammies bought Ukraine’s independence?
I’m of the opinion that US wanted political capture of as much of former USSR as it could get ever since USSR dissolved, and has succeeded in creating vassal states out of most former Soviet republics. Ukraine tried to maintain its neutrality between the west and Russia and largely succeeded until US ran a violent coup in 2014, at which point the legitimate elected government was overthrown.
You know nothing about Ukraine.
Both my parents were born in Ukraine, but do tell me more.
Last time I checked, the birthplace of parents doesn’t qualify you for any domain specific knowledge.
Just as you don’t know a thing about the chicken Kiev speech, you lack any deep, actual knowledge of what life in Ukraine is. Or rather was before 2013.
And yeah, the whole quora post you link to is laughable - how much things does it get wrong.
You’re right, it’s the time I’ve spent learning about the subject that qualifies me to speak on the subject and how I know you’re full of shit.
I can’t believe that Netanjahu is more trustworthy than Zaluzhny.[sic]
Can you touch on this a little further please? I’m not sure I follow.
There was a lot of back and forth over the last two years whether UAF can be trusted. Either about applying the weapons as agreed (ie not using atacms against muscovite mainland), or with regards to safety of the provided assets (keeping weapons in Ukraine and not selling it further to baddies). Like, there’s a severe shortage of atgms, and as of lately majority of russian hardware is hit either with artillery or with FPV drones, or direct hit weapons such as RPGs.
At the same time Netanjahu is a very risky political actor who has proven his, um, tendency to manipulate the political spectrum, who’s government absolutely fucked up the insurrection, and who governs a closest thing to an apartheid system since SA. Ffs his minister of internal security is so far right, he was expelled from IDF! And these people are promised unconstrained access to weapons.
This makes me sad.
Yeah, I didn’t read all 69 pages of the document. After 30 pages, I got RFP’d out and stopped.
There’s nowhere in this document that supports OP’s claim in the headline. If someone wants to refute my claim here, I’d be willing to address that with a citation in the document. But other than that, this entire post should be removed because it’s based on a horseshit claim.
A post like this is why downvotes are needed.
This request would modify requirements that apply to certain defense articles that the Department of Defense (DOD) transfers to Israel. Section 12001 of the Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 2005 (Public Law 108-287), as amended (section 12001), currently allows the DOD to transfer specified categories of defense articles to Israel in exchange for certain concessions from Israel, subject to multiple restrictions—including that the articles are obsolete or surplus to DOD. It further requires the President to notify the Congress at least 30 days prior to such transfer. This request would modify section 12001 to: allow for the transfer of all categories of defense articles; remove the requirement that these articles be obsolete or surplus to DOD; allow DOD greater flexibility in determining the value of the concessions provided in exchange for the transfers; and provide for the possibility of shortening the 30-day prior notice period in extraordinary circumstances.
Time to retire, Joe.
I don’t think he heard you. Yell next time.
He heard me. Joe loves lemmy as much as Donald loves X.
I can’t imagine Hamas being the sole reason behind this decision. Of course at face value it is but feels like they are taking this opportunity to do this for some other reason.
Terrible nonetheless but worried about what else is to happen due to this.
Arms manufacturers want more $ and can’t get more $ if the stockpiles are full
Likely as a condition of the pause and hostage exchange.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
“If enacted, the amendments would create a two-step around restrictions on U.S. weapons transfers to Israel,” said John Ramming Chappell, a legal fellow with the Center for Civilians in Conflict.
Under circumstances laid out in these requirements, Israel has been able to draw on the stockpile, purchasing the weapons at little cost if it uses the effective subsidy of U.S. military aid.
The effect of lifting the restrictions on transfers to Israel — such as eliminating the requirement that the weapons be part of a surplus — could harm U.S. interests by diminishing American preparedness for its own conflicts in the region, said Josh Paul, a former official who served in the State Department’s Bureau of Political-Military Affairs.
The U.S. government is only supposed to spend $200 million per fiscal year restocking the WRSA-I — about half the total cap for all U.S. stockpiles round the globe.
The U.S. currently requires that Israel grant certain concessions in exchange for certain types of arms assistance from the Pentagon, but the White House request would remove this condition as well.
“The Biden administration’s supplemental budget request would further undermine oversight and accountability even as U.S. support enables an Israeli campaign that has killed thousands of children,” said Chappell, of Center for Civilians in Conflict.
The original article contains 758 words, the summary contains 212 words. Saved 72%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
I get the feeling that Israelis have something on joe or his son
More likely he’s getting a cut from the billions that defense contractors are making by selling arms to Israel.
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Yes, you’re worried about a guy greasing his pockets who rode a train to work for 20 years, and not the constant grifter who sends out monthly emails begging for money for his legal fees for lawyers he refuses to pay. This is a completely reasonable take.
Who? I have no idea what you’re on about…
Israel has something on every Western leader… the fact they’re the front line of defense against jihadism.
There’s a reason why the west has lined up behind the only democracy in the region.
Israel is not a democracy if they have different laws for different classes of citizens.
They are a far right fanatical zionist theocracy
Based
how to tell the world you’re a massive sack of shit using a single word
Seethe
imagine openly supporting a genocide and telling people to seethe about it, we have a model western racist here
edit: and just look at all the genocidal scum pulling together to downvote, this is what reddit migration got us here on lemmy
Cope
With what exactly, you being a genocidal sack of shit?
