guys about to be invaded by russia and they’re protesting nato/us imperialism? priorities??
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Who told you Ukraine is about to be invaded by Russia?
Damn dude, this aged like milk. Just popped up in my feed when sorting by hot and I was pretty confused 😅
war mongers got their way in the end and now we are where we are
Well, the warmongers don’t seem to be doing so well. It’s been well over 100x (coming up on 200x) of the initial timeline with no victory in sight.
With respect to your original statement though, we have now seen which sources were more accurate so we can judge more carefully who to take seriously in future.
People are making good money off this war though, including in Ukraine. There have been lots of reports of grand scale embezzlement of the funds and resources being sent for the war.
What’s your hypothesis here? Some corrupt folks in Ukraine figured that maybe if Russia attacked and on the chance than the country could maintain a solid defence and assuming that western nations would be willing to send large amounts of military aid over a sustained conflict there could be money to be made? Seems like quite a dice roll to me let alone how they could exert influence over Russia to get them to invade. Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you’re suggesting but it seems pretty implausible to me.
Only a child would come up with a hypothesis like this. An adult would understand that Ukrainian oligarchs keep their wealth in western banks, and they make money through the corrupt government they set up after the coup in 2014. If you think Ukrainian oligarchs care about Ukraine any more than US oligarchs care about the US then you must’ve been born yesterday.
Olga is glad that Russia has intervened in the conflict, and she indeed corrected me when I once referred to the Russian SMO as an “invasion”, telling me that Russia did not invade. Rather, they were invited and welcomed in. That does seem to be the prevailing view in Donetsk as far as I can tell.
massive accumulation of russian troops, weapons, hospitals and other supplies along the border with ukraine, 2014 annexation of crimea, withdrawal of russian diplomats from ukraine…
look, i’d be the first person to want this whole thing to be some kind of massive misinformation event/a scaring/negotiating tactic/whatever, bc i have ukranian friends who are likely to get drafted, some of my closest friends in russia could get drafted, i myself could get drafted
i’d be very happy if in a few months i can go back to this comment and laugh at it, seeing how dumb this whole thing was, but right now it’s a tangible fear for all of us
whatever your position is on this, you’ll never fail to be surprised what kind of fucked up shit a crazy ultranationalistic autocrat with zero oversight catering to a nationalistic population can end up doing…
Russia is clearly the aggressor here.
russia is a country with the most number of nuclear weapons in the world, being extremely sensitive about any border disputes, fueled by an unfortunate self-perpetuating symbiosis of a large portion of the population being nationalistic being catered to by an equally nationalistic autocrat…
no sensible country would touch such an explosive combination country with a long pole, let alone try to invade, which would virtually guarantee mutual destruction with nuclear weapons…
fueled by an unfortunate self-perpetuating symbiosis of a large portion of the population being nationalistic being catered to by an equally nationalistic autocrat…
Not all nationalisms are equal. Russia’s nationalism has invaded 0 countries, and has like 4 external military bases that are holdovers from the USSR. I’m showing you a picture of dozens of NATO bases used to launch invasions and encroachments for Euro-american chauvinist interests, like as @yogthos@lemmy.ml mentioned, in Yugoslavia, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq.
How many countries has Russia since the 1990s, compared to NATO?
Not all nationalisms are equal. Russia’s nationalism has invaded 0 countries,
Sakartvelo?
Every night, Russian soldiers move the border markers a few meters south, and people living close to it always wonder if they will wake up having become Russian residents while they slept.
First, let’s establish some context here. What Russia is rightly concerned about is the fact that NATO has been relentlessly expanding to the east. They’ve now given NATO an ultimatum that it has to roll back and comply with the original security guarantees that were given after USSR dissolved. The threat to Russia is real and should not be understated. NATO being able to put nukes in Ukraine would mean that they could reach Moscow in five minutes. This is a red line for Russia. All the NATO members have already stated that there is no prospects of Ukraine joining NATO or EU in the foreseeable future. This precludes any reason for Russia to act.
Russia has also never once said that it plans to invade Ukraine. The troops you’re talking about are stationed in their barracks. Likewise, France, Germany, and even Ukraine are saying that there is no Russian invasion happening.
So far, the only countries insisting that there is some imminent invasion are US and UK. And the country that’s been most damaged by these claims is Ukraine since all the investors are now pulling out leading to the economy crashing. This is the primary reason Ukrainian government has now broken with the US narrative.
Russia is achieving its goals without any need to invade Ukraine. Europe has absolutely no interest in having a full out war in Ukraine, and it’s also heavily dependent on Russian gas and oil meaning that EU has little appetite to try and sanction Russia. On the other hand, US appears to be pushing for conflict as a distraction from the disastrous domestic policy and because accepting Russian demands would be seen as weakness. This is already driving a serious wedge within NATO. Russia will continue to apply pressure by doing military exercises within its borders, and negotiating with western powers. France, Italy, and Germany are already having direct talks with Russia and this is the most likely path towards resolving the issue.
Russia invading Ukraine would be counter to their goals as it would actually help unite NATO against them. There is no conceivable benefit to Russia from fighting a war in Ukraine. It’s also worth noting that Russian media hasn’t talked about any war, and typically countries prepare their public for a war when they’re planning on having one.
The only scenario Russia has stated that it would engage militarily in Ukraine would be if Ukraine invaded Donbas. Ukraine has been ignoring its Minsk agreement commitments failing to grant autonomy to Donetsk and Kuhansk, and has been engaging in committing war crimes in these regions by attacking water supply and civilian targets.
The threat to Russia is real and should not be understated.
NATO doesn’t invade countries. This is a threat to their geopolitical interests, not a direct threat.
You can whatabout your way and compare them to America acting on their interests, but that just makes them the same as America, not better.
NATO doesn’t invade countries. This is a threat to their geopolitical interests, not a direct threat.
Tell that to Yugoslavia, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq.
Huh. Donbas is a part of Ukraine. So Russia will invade Ukraine if it “invades” Ukraine? Nice reasoning.
Donbas is an autonomous region that separated from Ukraine. Funny how westerners only believe in people’s right for self determination when it suits them.
You mean like how you paint the Maidan Revolution as a NATO conspiracy? Those people taught the world how to protest. And less than a year later both protester and police where shoulder to shoulder in foxholes, getting shelled by Russian artillery. Self determination when it suits you, eh?
The fact that the coup was funded and orchestrated by US is a well documented fact. Donbas wants independence and Ukraine even signed the Minsk agreement to grant them independence. Stop trying to rewrite history you sad little troll.
NATO being able to put nukes in Ukraine would mean that they could reach Moscow in five minutes. This is a red line for Russia.
Serious question: why should Ukraine be a red line when NATO could already put nuclear weapons in Latvia, which is about the same distance from Moscow?
They’re not happy about Latvia either, and the current demand is that NATO rolls back to where it was in the 90s. However, when Latvia joined NATO, Russia was in no position to make any kinds of demands. Situation today is very different than it was then.
Wouldn’t that totally invalidate the point of NATO, if Russia (whose expansion NATO was founded to curb) can just demand that countries that already joined it should leave it?
The point of NATO was invalidated when USSR fell. NATO has been responsible for practically all the instability in Eurasia since then, and the sooner this alliance falls apart the better off the world will be. The countries NATO assimilated should’ve never been admitted into NATO based on the agreements made between NATO and Russia in the 90s.
well, i hope you’re right in the sense that this entire thing is actually a negotiating tactic, however, i can’t help but still remain pretty worried
i guess we’ll just see what happens, bc we will probably have a relatively certain answer soon 🤷♀️
It is a very serious situation, and there is a real risk of a conflict breaking out. I just don’t see how it would be in Russia’s or Europe’s interest for things to go that way. On the other hand, US directly benefits from a war in Ukraine. This is a fantastic article providing some useful background on why US is escalating tensions.
I am curious though, if Russia says they aren’t going to invade Ukraine, then why are they doing this massive military build up? Like what is the point? If the US/NATO refuse to cooperate with Russian demands… then what? Nothing? Do they just stay there?
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NATO and USA has been and still hiring mercenaries
Could you cite this? A quick search shows that Russia has leveled that accusation, but Russia often lies (remember the “little green men”?)
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There really isn’t any massive military build up that I’m aware of. Russia has simply been conducting military exercises, and the point of these exercises is to put pressure on NATO. What Russia is saying is that if there was a serious consideration to admit Ukraine to NATO, then that would be a cause of them to attack Ukraine. This is a game of chicken Russia and NATO are playing, and that Russia is currently winning.
I think who is winning is something neither you or I know enough classified intelligence to make definitive statements on. My other question is, if Russia wants a buffer between NATO countries, then wouldn’t invading Ukraine put Russian borders right up against NATO borders (Romania, Hungry, etc.)? I’m not seeing the logic in it.
It’s pretty clear that Russia is in a much better position than NATO here. Europe depends on Russia for around 40% of its energy, and there is no credible alternative to that. Russia also has a far bigger military force that it would be able to deploy than NATO. Russia has also become sanction proof, even financial times admits this now. On top of that, Russia is also allied with China creating a huge economic bloc that Europe is entirely dependent on. Europe already does more trade with China than US at this point. European leaders clearly understand this, hence why there are direct negotiations are now happening between Russia, France, and Germany.
And again, Russia has no interest in invading Ukraine. They want Ukraine to be a neutral country the way it was before NATO did a color revolution there.
edit: spelling
Just finally read that linked article, and from where I stand, and the author of the article stands, Russia really has no right to make these demands. Nothing was officially agreed upon (signed by both parties). People give political promises all the time, but nothing is real until signed. What are your thoughts on that?
My thoughts on that are that NATO lied to the leaders of USSR and created a false impression of its intentions. Then once USSR fell, NATO took the opportunity of the ensuing chaos to ruthlessly expand itself and create chaos across the region. Russia is now in a position to make its own demands now, and that’s what they’re doing. The end result will either be new security treaties being signed that ensure peace in Europe or we’ll see a war happen.
I think the former is likely to happen over war. There will be some sort of law that restricts NATO membership or the like. Russia is considered to be in a partnership for peace with NATO, and that’s likely where the dialogue is surrounding. I think the number of NATO members who would rather negotiate peace outweigh the larger more influential members advocating for provocation (US and UK). I really want to see peace in the region.
That’s my expectation as well. I think everyone understands that war would be devastating for both Russia and Europe. Another likely possibility is that NATO just falls apart, and new protocols are developed between Europe and Russia. It’s becoming increasingly clear that the goals of US and Europe are no longer aligned the way they were in the past, and I don’t think Europe is interested in being used as a pawn in US geopolitical games.
What Russia is rightly concerned about is the fact that NATO has been relentlessly expanding to the east.
At the same time, Russia is itself responsible for those countries joining. NATO is not an expansionist body. It is a treaty organization where smaller countries that feel threatened by Russian interference have sought refuge. Russia’s recent imperialism in Georgia and Ukraine and a longer history of imperialist tendencies has pushed countries to join to avoid being under Russia’s thumb.
How exactly is Russia responsible for those countries joining? Meanwhile, NATO is absolutely an expansionist body as very clearly demonstrated by its non stop expansion for the past 30 years. Russia was perfectly fine with Georgia an Ukraine doing their thing until NATO started running coups in those countries. You managed to reverse the cause and effect here.
Oh no, economics and logistics don’t add up, oh snap
Wow, all twenty Ukrainians who approve of their country being invaded in one place.
Can you give a little more context please? Do any news outlets report on this, how many people did protest?
While I think this is very interesting, this submission kinda breaks
Please only post links to actual news sources, no tabloid sites, etc
doesn’t it?
was posted on vk https://vk.com/wall683355483_4750
Thank you, in the post it says:
Anti-war demonstration in front of the USA embassy Kiev, Ukraine.
“Happening now - an antiwar rally in Kiev in front of US embassy in Ukraine. The protesters demand from US to stop intereference in Ukraine and pushing it to war with Russia. I bet no West MSM covers anti-NATO protests in Ukraine (they report only about our far-right militants preparing to fight russians, as I can see).”
It looks like this is not the original source. All I can find in that regard is lots of tumblr posts (this seems to be the first one: https://fuckyeahmarxismleninism.tumblr.com/post/675720711979008000/happening-now-an-antiwar-rally-in-kiev-ukraine) referring to Dmitri Kovalevich.
my old flat was near there when i was working in kyiv in 2014. i remember there being an anti-US protest that looked similar from around that time. to be honest, i feel a little in the dark about what is going on right now, but from what i can remember about living in kyiv was that the people (predominantly) who were “pro” Russia were a lot of older folks. i don’t really remember anyone of a less mature age who was supportive of Russia…there seems to be a lot of older folks in these pictures and from what i can remember the protests from around the time i was there was the same. a lot of the older folks seemed to have happy memories of the USSR, but everyone i knew who was younger disdained anything having to do with Russia and hated living in the USSR as children.
who knows?
i only had the experience of living in ukraine as an american, but either way, i think living under the USSR would be worse in a lot of ways. that isn’t to say that the US can improve a lot in terms of social and economic equity, and also foreign policy. i don’t think the US will get involved with ukraine, even in 2014 people were saying that we would get involved but that never happened and from what i can tell a lot of the conflict has been concentrated to the east (at least from steppe notifications i get from time to time)
The reality of the situation is that Ukraine is doing a lot worse after US sponsored color revolution than it did before. It’s now the poorest country in Europe and there are no prospects of things getting better going forward. People you met when you were in Ukraine grew up in the time after USSR collapse, and they expected that Ukraine would become like the west once it moved into western sphere of influence. Yet, after 2014 things continued to get worse, and young people have only seen their prospects continuously get worse, so there is a lot of disillusionment with the west at this point.
Meanwhile, life in USSR was far better for the vast majority of the people. Material conditions have been deteriorating drastically for the vast majority of people in former republics.
thanks for the response. do you think that ukraine would ever split? i’m sure that there are a lot of people disillusioned with the US and the EU, but at the same time, i think that just as many are disillusioned by Russia and the USSR. i haven’t been back to ukraine since 2014, and haven’t kept up on how things are going, but the friends i did make there have been trying to get out of ukraine. the family i was close to was trying to make their way to poland, and the other good friend i made ended up in chicago. they like ukraine, but are tired of the lack of opportunities.
Ukraine becoming Balkanized is a distinct possibility at this point. As economic situation continues to spiral out of control, tensions are going to continue building between different groups. Most of the eastern part of Ukraine is Russian speaking and would be more sympathetic to aligning with Russia. Meanwhile, western Ukraine is dominated by Ukrainian nationalists who have been in power since 2014. Zelensky ran on a campaign of reconciliation, however that never really materialized so far.
And yeah, there has been a huge amount of immigration out of Ukraine which feeds into economic problems. Now, with the threat of war the economy is starting to unravel completely since all the investors are pulling out their assets while they can. If the economy collapses, then Ukraine might cease to exist as a country.
Wait wait wait, doesn’t Ukarane kill all protestors? That’s what Daddy Sam tells me!
Anyone wonders why they are wearing masks? Never ever is this picture made “today”, nice troll attempt.
You’re going to be shocked when you actually check the date of the post.
