The rural city of Grants Pass in southern Oregon has become the unlikely face of the nation’s homelessness crisis as its case over anti-camping laws goes to the U.S.

The scenes were emblematic of the crisis gripping the small, Oregon mountain town of Grants Pass, where a fierce fight over park space has become a battleground for a much larger, national debate on homelessness that has reached the U.S. Supreme Court.

The town’s case, set to be heard April 22, has broad implications for how not only Grants Pass, but communities nationwide address homelessness, including whether they can fine or jail people for camping in public. It has made the town of 40,000 the unlikely face of the nation’s homelessness crisis, and further fueled the debate over how to deal with it.

“I certainly wish this wasn’t what my town was known for,” Mayor Sara Bristol told The Associated Press last month. “It’s not the reason why I became mayor. And yet it has dominated every single thing that I’ve done for the last 3 1/2 years.”

Officials across the political spectrum — from Democratic Gov. Gavin Newsom in California, which has nearly 30% of the nation’s homeless population, to a group of 22 conservative-led states — have filed briefs in the case, saying lower court rulings have hamstrung their ability to deal with encampments.

  • Neato@ttrpg.networkEnglish
    1254·
    7 months ago

    What the fuck? They’re homeless. Sleeping outside is their only option. Shelters are often dangerous, very restrictive on who they let in and there aren’t anywhere near enough of them in the places they need to be.

    Sleeping in public places isn’t a fucking crime. It’s not like they’d choose the park over an apartment if they had one.

    • PoopDelivery@sh.itjust.works
      752·
      7 months ago

      Yes, but if it’s criminalized you get to remove the eyesore of struggling poor people with the added benefit of fines and imprisonment.

    • disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
      22·
      7 months ago

      Not to mention you get kicked out of the shelter in the morning and can’t return until the evening, assuming you’re back in time to get a bed.

    • jordanlund@lemmy.world
      1156·
      7 months ago

      It’s tricky, because allowing it to happen creates massive public health and environmental disasters:

      https://www.oregonlive.com/environment/2023/07/natural-sites-in-east-portland-hardest-hit-by-homeless-camps.html

      https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2023/07/hidden-toll-of-homeless-crisis-portlands-prized-natural-areas.html

      https://nbcmontana.com/news/nation-world/city-breaks-up-homeless-camp-pulls-out-150-stolen-cars-tons-of-trash-live-pigs-big-four-corners-natural-area-portland-oregon-housing-crisis-damage-neighbor-george-donnerberg-park-and-rec-environmental-impact

      https://www.koin.com/local/multnomah-county/portland-waterways-streets-cleared-of-over-100-derelict-boats-thanks-to-take-back-program/

      These aren’t the “oh, poor innocent homeless, down on their luck” portrayed by advocates, they are drug addicts and thieves, leeching off society, and actively making life worse for themselves and everyone else.

      • Neato@ttrpg.networkEnglish
        36·
        7 months ago

        Perhaps if they had housing and sufficient social nets so they didn’t have to steal to eat and places they could get managed drug doses (you can’t just quit, especially without resources) then this wouldn’t be a problem.

        It’s not like people choose to be problems and homeless. Almost all Americans are one or two bad turns away from joining them.

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
        291·
        7 months ago

        Studies show the majority of homeless people have jobs. Furthermore they didn’t have one big reason for going homeless. They just couldn’t afford housing and eventually they are unable to pay. People report sliding into homelessness over the course of years as the cost of housing kept rising without pay rising.

        Trying to depict all homeless people as junkies is disingenuous at best.

        • jordanlund@lemmy.world
          219·
          7 months ago

          That was the estimate from the University of Chicago in 2021 which has since been actively been disproven by point in time counts of actual homeless people.

          The Chicago stat:

          https://endhomelessness.org/blog/employed-and-experiencing-homelessness-what-the-numbers-show/

          “53% of people living in homeless shelters and 40% of unsheltered people were employed, either full or part-time, in the year that people were observed homeless between 2011 – 2018.”

          The reality is almost the exact opposite:

          https://socialinnovation.usc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Homelessness-and-Employment.pdf

          “According to the Los Angeles Homeless Services Authority’s (LAHSA) 2019 Adult Demographic Survey, over 50% of single adults (24 and older) experiencing unsheltered homelessness in Los Angeles County are unemployed (LAHSA, 2019a). Of those unemployed, approximately half reported that they are actively looking for work. The same survey found that 49% of unsheltered adults in family units are unemployed, but a much higher percentage of them (36%) are actively looking for work than single adults. Additionally, 46% of unsheltered adults cited unemployment or a financial reason as a primary reason why they are homeless (LAHSA, 2019a).”

          And:

          “According to the same survey, about 20% of single adults experiencing unsheltered homelessness in Los Angeles County are working, including full-time, part-time, seasonal, and self-employment compared to about 32% of unsheltered adults in family units (LAHSA, 2019a). Not only are people experiencing homelessness employed at low rates, but evidence shows that those who are employed report very low annual earnings (California Policy Lab, 2020). In Los Angeles County, employed people experiencing homelessness earned an average of just under $10,000 in the year prior to experiencing homelessness (California Policy Lab, 2020).”

          • Maggoty@lemmy.world
            201·
            7 months ago

            So first of all, you’re comparing two different regions. Second 51 percent of people in the document you linked have an income and 36 percent are seeking work. Third, you should really read their myths document. It pretty clearly refutes all of your claims.

                • ShepherdPie@midwest.social
                  61·
                  7 months ago

                  “You should work for what you have! Also, you should donate your time to corporations because they shouldn’t have to pay people a living wage to earn all their profit for them!”

              • dogslayeggs@lemmy.world
                31·
                7 months ago

                They aren’t asking for anyone to give things to them (well, besides spare change). They just want to live their lives and not go to jail. Some want to find a job but can’t. Some have a job but not a good enough one to get an apartment. Some want to do drugs and sleep in oblivion. Some have severe mental challenges and couldn’t hold a job if they tried.

          • girlfreddy@lemmy.caOP
            91·
            7 months ago

            While employment helps people stay housed, it does not guarantee housing. As many as 40%-60% of people experiencing homelessness have a job, but housing is unaffordable because wages have not kept up with rising rents. There is no county or state where a full-time minimum-wage worker can afford a modest apartment. At minimum wage, people have to work 86 hours a week to afford a one-bedroom. Even when people can afford a home, one is not always available. In 1970, the United States had a surplus of 300,000 affordable homes. Today, only 37 affordable homes are available for every 100 extremely low-income renters. As a result, 70% of the lowest-wage households spend more than half their income on rent, placing them at high risk of homelessness when unexpected expenses (such as car repairs and medical bills) arise. Source

          • ShepherdPie@midwest.social
            4·
            7 months ago

            How does 51% of homeless people being unemployed in LA County disprove the claim that only 47% of homeless people are unemployed in Chicago? They’re almost the same figure…

      • HobbitFoot @thelemmy.clubEnglish
        13·
        7 months ago

        May be, but we’ve gotten rid of entire classes of housing that these kind of people would be living in otherwise.

        • jordanlund@lemmy.world
          421·
          7 months ago

          Ideally, what I’d like to see is this… It would probably take 1.5 to 2 billion to pull off:

          1. You build and staff a state of the art medical facility for mental health and addiction treatment, including the ability to hold people long term if necessary.

          2. You build and staff a facility for job training and placement, including specialized support for people with criminal records. This would also need to include interview and resume skills. Assistance for email, phone, and Internet, but also clothing assistance, laundry assistance, and the like for interviews.

          3. You build and staff a facility for housing support. Like work assistance, there needs to be specialized support for people with criminal records. But also a permanent address for mail.

          4. Once all that infrastructure is in place, you sweep the streets.

          • People who need mental health and addiction treatment get institutionalized and treated until they are healthy, then they get released to the job and housing programs.

          • People who have no job get the job assistance program.

          • People who have a job get the housing assistance program.

          • People with warrants or otherwise engaging in crimimal behavior (stolen cars, stolen bikes, other material) get arrested.

          • People who are otherwise able bodied, but who are homeless by choice because “I ain’t part of your system, maaaan!” get their asses kicked and pressed into service cleaning up homeless camps.

              • M0oP0o
                7·
                7 months ago

                Some might say making forced camps for a subset of people might be considered a final solution. But maybe I am just concentrating on the whole sweep the streets of undisrables part.

                • jordanlund@lemmy.world
                  13·
                  7 months ago

                  Camps that help people vs. camps that hurt people is a pretty significant difference. It’s clear they can’t or won’t help themselves.

                  But I’m open, you have a better solution than letting them live in squalor?

              • dogslayeggs@lemmy.world
                51·
                7 months ago

                Your last sentence is what is so unreasonable. You are criminalizing being alive without a job, which means humans have no right to live without being in your system.

                • jordanlund@lemmy.world
                  26·
                  7 months ago

                  Pretty much, yeah, you don’t have the right to leech off everyone else. Contribute or GTFO.

  • PoopDelivery@sh.itjust.works
    56·
    7 months ago

    It’s getting to the point that you can’t sleep anywhere legally unless you’re paying someone for the space you’re occupying. Most of the cities near me have destroyed the woods that homeless people lived in, forcing them to move and leaving behind a weird ass looking stand of trees.

    I used to work with homeless people and as much as being outside sucks, shelters can be worse. We had people in their 70s who went to shelters and slept on the floor, their heads almost touching their neighbors. They had their meds stolen and had to sleep on top of their belongings to keep them safe. A lot of people chose to sleep outside in the summer because they felt safer.

    • mojo_raisin@lemmy.worldEnglish
      16·
      7 months ago

      It’s getting to the point that you can’t sleep anywhere legally unless you’re paying someone for the space you’re occupying.

      This is the point of enclosure and it’s been true for hundreds of years now. This is the concept the stole the planet from the people.

  • FirstCircle@lemmy.mlEnglish
    412·
    7 months ago

    You can be sure that these jailed homeless people will end up being forced into labor - enslaved - because you can’t let dirt-cheap labor go to waste, and you can’t let a poor person look like they’re getting something for nothing - mooching, free-riding - even if it’s not their choice. Handouts are legitimately only for the rich and their corporations after all. If someone’s fined+jailed and won’t work for some capitalist exploiter, what will be done? I would guess some kind of torture will be employed to change their minds, but wouldn’t be surprised if they’re simply executed, especially if they’re non-white.

    • capem@startrek.website
      41·
      7 months ago

      Personally, if I was homeless and found out I’m now in debt from the greedy-fuckers who put me there…

      I would just take the law into my own hands at that point.

        • Entropywins@lemmy.world
          3·
          7 months ago

          Often, at the surface all you’ll see is someone being homeless through their own actions. Take a peak a little closer and you’ll see that we all failed them collectively. The biggest difference I’ve noticed between housed and unhoused isn’t the amount of trauma/violence/abuse they’ve suffered its the amount of support around them that made the difference in life trajectory.

        • AA5B@lemmy.world
          2·
          7 months ago

          Regardless of how they hit there, how is it useful for anyone to attempt to fine someone for having nothing? Seems like just a pretense to jail people

          • the post of tom joad@sh.itjust.works
            1·
            7 months ago

            There is political pressure from our corporate prison companies to fill their beds, so they can get their tasty government stipend. Indeed, jailing them is beneficial to both parties involved as it “solves” the homeless issue for the govt and makes money for the bribery donation class citizens they serve.

  • ShepherdPie@midwest.social
    24·
    7 months ago

    This lawsuit is idiotic considering the federal courts already ruled that you can’t apply penalties against sleeping outside unless there are enough shelter beds for everyone. That ruling was in our federal district covering Oregon…

  • bradorsomething@ttrpg.network
    22·
    7 months ago

    We keep eroding the social support network and complain about the homeless problem.

    We keep changing the environment and complain about the new weather.

    This all ends… so well.

  • credo@lemmy.world
    212·
    7 months ago

    The federal government needs to take over homeless support. Establish federally managed shelters.

    • conditional_soup@lemm.ee
      161·
      7 months ago

      I’m wary about this being the solution. I mean… [Gestures wildly at the federal government] Just wait until the republicans get a supermajority again and see what they do with camps full of homeless people under federal control.

      • credo@lemmy.world
        221·
        7 months ago

        Yeah, but giving the homeless bus tickets to another state isn’t the answer either. I know that wasn’t referenced earlier- but it happens. Without federal level support, Republicans’ solution is to remove their burdens to someone else’s plate. Then they unironically point at the “failures” of Democratic states, “look at all the encampments.”

        Making homelessness illegal is just another arrow in their quiver towards the same goal (target).

    • Maggoty@lemmy.world
      5·
      7 months ago

      HUD could do a lot by just literally buying buildings or developing new projects and renting them for just enough to cover costs. Put an anchor into the real estate markets.

    • Uranium3006@kbin.social
      31·
      7 months ago

      And impose property taxes on rich people to pay for it. Allow those same taxpayers to vote to.have that tax go to permanent housing for the homeless in their zip code and such a vote is also consent to override all local laws in the process and make it lawsuit immune

    • Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world
      11·
      7 months ago

      Eminent domain land

      Use the army core of engineers to build free public housing 200 miles outside of a metro location

      run high speed rail from that to the metro.

  • Veraxus@lemmy.world
    18·
    7 months ago

    “Can blood be squeezed from a stone? A rural Oregon city asks the US Council of Monarchs.”

  • some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org
    13·
    7 months ago

    With this lineup, the SC is going to make execution the punishment for not having gainful employment. Only half sarcastic.