- cross-posted to:
- gauchisse@jlai.lu
- cross-posted to:
- gauchisse@jlai.lu
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It’s literally this easy…
It just requires the centrists to side with the left.
What I don’t get, is in any country they’re routinely the ones that screech “both sides” when criticized.
Like bro, youre not “the left” your by your own definition “half way”. Why wouldn’t a centrist get criticism from both sides?
It won’t be that easy. The centrists are more like rightwing. They delivered a nasty immigration law and THEY installed the far-right with their gamble and bad politics. We won a battle but the war isn’t over…
Yep, we have three factions in America:
- Conservative
- Moderate
- Progressive
1 and 2 criticize 3
2 and 3 criticize 1
But when it’s time to criticize 2…
If 1 does it, 2 “compromises” with them
If 3 criticizes 2, then 2 starts screaming about “both sides” and saying group 3 is really group 1
It doesn’t make any fucking logical sense, but that’s where we’ve been for decades. And it’s not working.
it’s quite a simplistic view. Even in the left side you can have some flavours, so you still have to check how they will compromise and not stab you in the back. We’re in that kind of fucking shit in France right now.
In America, you’re kinda fucked, but worse. If you had elected Bernie Sanders (“left”), maybe you would have a chance, but now you’re stuck with a neolib old geezer (your center I guess, but it’s a bad joke), and a far-right dictator. Good luck with your middle ground…
What’s frustrating is progressives already won the fight back in 08…
But instead of Obama putting his people in charge of the DNC (national Dem party) he just ignored the party, because the party ignored (or even hurt) his campaign.
So when Obama left office, the party went right back to their old bullshit.
Now we need to do it all over again.
It’s honestly not that hard to fix, just ever since 08 the DNC has fought a lot harder to ensure progressives dont control the party.
Every election that goes by that a progressive doesn’t win, the party locks it down tighter.
This election they removed delegates from an entire state for our primary, because they always went first and kept voting progressive.
And by and large, people just didn’t care…
Hell, lots of Americans still don’t even know New Hampshire had their delegates stolen.
Obama was never a true progressive. His signature legislative victory was literally just yhe Republican health care plan from 10 years earlier. It was literally based on Romney’s overhaul of the Massachusetts health insurance reforms as governor.
His signature legislative victory was literally just yhe Republican health care plan from 10 years earlier.
It was actually a more conservative (shitty) version of Romney’s plan.
But his campaign was progressive, and it flipped solid red states.
So when the only goal we’re allowed to focus on is stopping trump, we don’t need an actual progressive. A moderate pretending to be progressive will be enough.
It worked for Biden in 2020, but this election he stopped pretending and is only demanding votes.
And what happened afterwards? Because Obama’s failure to make meaningful changes to the average American’s life resulted in the Democrats loosing support in huge swaths of the country and gave us Trump.
You got the factions wrong.
- Proud Conservatives
- Embarrassed Conservatives
- Progressives
Makes more sense when you look at it that way.
It’s because the corporate donors that support 2 are okay with 1 but fucking hate 3 because they threaten profits.
Well, not that clear cut nowadays. The far right have started getting all about super high tariffs and broadly impeding international trade and also getting rid of people who also generally provide a cheap labor market. Also a general sense of a will to undermine economy for the sake of their beliefs. The promises of lower taxes now come with some costs that likely make it not worth it.
I assume this is analogous to 1=Republican, 2=Democrat, 3=Progressive. ? So then usually it’s group 3 that is complaining about “both sides”?
Yeah it’s hard to argue that Macron is a centrist. Sure he was elected as one, but his actions are pretty self explanatory
In America centrist are just gullible people who think things like, “the economy is better under a republican.” Without ever realizing the economy they experience is the one that has been reigned in by a democrat which will then be let loose again by a republican just in time for a democrat to regain office.
They say shit like, “I error on the side pro-life when it comes to abortion.” Acting like they were being humane when the real humane thing would be to prevent the suffering of both the mother and the child by building social structures that protect the poor. Things like universal healthcare, universal income, mandatory maternity leave, etc.
Centrist believe the middle ground is if you listen to everyone in earnest then judge based on that. Never seeing that these truths they trust in are never the reality. The reality being is that things are very complicated and if you want to parse out your ideology you’ll have to do more than read the headline.
When you go issue by issue, the overwhelming majority supports left policies and rejects right wing fuckery because right wing fuckery fucks over 90% of people.
Unfortunately most people are idiots and left candidates are morons when it comes to self marketing and expressing ideas, so it’s always a coin flip…
They support “left” policies as long as those policies don’t hurt corporate profits… Then they agree with the right. All they need to do is take that one last little step to the left, embrace the working class, and abandon the ever shrinking right, and they’d never lose again.
Corporate profits and hoarding wealth before paying for society is what hurts 90% of the people. Any individual social policy only hurts a small percentage of people at a time. (I know theoretically an attack on any of us is an attack on all of us, but unfortunately most people only care about things when they are directly effected)
“It just requires the centrists to side with the left.”
Maybe modern-day Girondins still have some qualms regarding making alliances with the left. Nobody wants to be the new Danton
Let’s see if it lasts enough to form a working government. Here’s to hoping this holds against history!
yeah, this was a good surprise, but electoralism has never stopped fascism. these same people who made a point to vote left better be organizing right now. they will be back.
May I ask why the meme template got mirrored?
To go to the left I guess.
I thought it was because Europeans drive on the other side of the road?
But I’m not 100% which side France uses.
Only the UK & Ireland (and Malta maybe?) drive on the left in Europe
Malta is correct and Cyprus drives on the left, too.
Thanks!
There are some interesting repercussions of the expansion of the British Empire too. British Virgin Islands drive on the left with right hand drive cars. Islands that were purchased by other nations, like St. John, use American left hand drive cars while driving on the left side of the road.
I rented a car in St. John, and I can say it’s so bizarre being the driver on the white line side of the road.
Totally tripped me out on Montserrat in a rental car. Their roads are insane, I’d never driven on the left hand side of the road before, and certainly not in a left driver’s side car. If the driver’s side was on the right I think I would have been way less scared.
Absolutely! Making my first right at a four-way intersection was terrifying. It’s kinda cool how your brain just gets it all of a sudden though.
ironically, this stunt was performed in Europe. lol
The fucking mirroring is making my body twitch. I wanna rip out my left half
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It’s not that easy. First, who are the centrist? Things shifted to the right so much Macron is definitely right wing. You might call the Parti Socialiste (PS) centrist, it has a right and left wing in itself. In this sense you can call it an alliance.
But if you are talking about Macron’s party I wouldn’t call that an alliance. Some withdrew when they were against a far right and a PS opponent but some didn’t when it was against a far right and a leftist opponent (or they had to be heavily pressured). And now in the parliament it’s definitely not going to be an alliance, they’ll be voting against most things the Nouveau Front Populaire (NFP) brings up, they voted with the far right in the past and will do it again.
The whole point of Macron’s dissolution was probably to break the left in the first place, and they keep trying to split the NFP by saying they are willing to negotiate with it’s center part but not it’s left part.
Macron can easily qualify as far right now. Anti immigration, extreme capitalism, fascism, that’s enough.
What sort of fascist stuff has he been up to?
Reducing immigrants’ rights, increasing the class gap, increasing the powers of the president, overusing a law made for exceptional situations as a way to bypass the democratic process, banning protests against him, recruiting criminals and attempting to protect them…
Macron isn’t a centrist.
For modern, neoliberal western euro nations I think he’s fairly centrist in today’s climate relatively speaking.
He is not far right, but he is not centrist.
Pushed retirement age two years using bogus numbers.
Violent police free to mutilate peaceful protesters without consequences.
Dismantling of public institutions.
Reducing access to cheap medicine.
Privatization of public universities.
Etc.He cannibalized right wing voters from UMP back in the day for a very good reason.
His program and his decisions are fairly anchored in typical right wing bullshit.
Privatization of public universities
HE DID WHAT?!
He is not centrist but people voting for him are
If you look at Macron’s program, his ideas, his realisations and think ‘hmm, yes, I shall vote for him.’, you’re not a centrist, you’re right wing.
They don’t look
Right wing people tend to be rather dumb, yes.
If rightoids don’t unambiguously disown actual white supremacists and fascists, this will happen here too.
The American right has an easier time disowning the insane weirdos then the “progressive” movement does, but there are still a lot of ordinary boring conservatives who are convinced that actual white supremacists are just conservatives who are getting smeared by the boy who cried nazi. That could easily be the undoing of the right. The far left is far more agreeable to the masses then the far right.
If rightoids don’t unambiguously disown actual white supremacists and fascists, this will happen here too.
How would they accomplish this? The maintenance of white supremacism is literally the reason right-wing politics in the US exists - you’re asking them to stop being reactionaries and become… what? Socialists? Anarchists?
Allying with (so-called) “centrists” have never worked out well for the left.
Never.
For the sake of completeness: Allying with authoritarian socialists has never worked out well for anarchists either
has never worked out well for anarchists either
You wanna use the big bad “A” word underneath a swollen liberal hive-mind like this one?
Careful… you might cause a panicked stampede.
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If France wants to defeat the far right
There is no such thing as a government that wants to “defeat” the far-right - they keep the far-right around for a very good reason.
Central Unions and big political organizations have cancelled the common meeting planned for this week, because “the far-right didn’t pass” This the 3rd time they almost did, I don’t know how many warning shot they need.
I’m sick of the blindness of the left management. We seriously need more people in grass roots organization.
A guy named Von Papen once tried doing it the other way. Didn’t turn out well.
Off-Topic Fun Fact. The exit number at the top of the board is placed on the side of the board in which you would be exiting the highway. So if the Exit 12 is on the top left of the board, and ramp is on the left lane of the highway.
In which country?
Look like US signs to me
The image is using United States highway signs, so that one
Okay, then why is the exit on right right and the sign on the left?
If you want to get pedantic, it’s not an exit sign, it’s a TIXƎ sign with a TꟻƎ⅃ sign above it. I don’t know what country uses TIXƎ signs.
I’m not being pedantic, they said they should be on the same side.
They’re not wrong though, that just can’t be exit 12. It’s a right hand turn and the sign clearly states that exit 12 is on the left.
Oh you’re right. I think it is true, to be sure I was looking at the signs on the highway today and they were consistent with this rule.
