Has decolonization occurred in countries where the colonized are the minority though?

its why i have little hope for organizing in america, since most of the movements fail to address this contradiction and are inherently reactionary. Settler colonialism is the largest contradiction in these lands, as well as systemic racism, and of course both go hand in hand.

Any ‘socialism’ on stolen land is exactly what you say, labor zionism in essence. Americans who debate this fact have no right to be near any socialist space as they are reactionaries.

America does not deserve socialism because america is a false and unholy construct that must be undone

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I think you’ve shifted the goalposts in this discussion. You started with a question of “how many americans just want the plunders of imperialism shared more evenly with the working class” while predicting substantial reduction in quality of life for Americans post imperialism. I contend that most Americans do not have an improved quality of life even with the imperialism: that value and wealth is retained by the PMC and bourgeoisie. Sure, “the Global North” is taking a massively disproportionate share of global GDP via ownership, financialization, and rent seeking in general, but the vast majority of that is captured and retained by the top income earners in the US. Lumping in your median global North worker with his/her boss is absurd.

“About 50.7 percent of the household income of private households in the U.S. were earned by the highest quintile in 2022, which are the upper 20 percent of the workers.”

https://www.statista.com/statistics/203247/shares-of-household-income-of-quintiles-in-the-us/#:~:text=About 50.7 percent of the,earned by the lowest quintile.

The top two quintiles account for nearly 75% of total US income. If we got more granular, I think we’d easily find income drops off very quickly as you move down the second quintile too. No matter how you cut the numbers presented, though, my point I think stands. You may disagree for other reasons, but for the sake of argument if you were to grant that most Americans don’t benefit from imperialism, then it doesn’t seem to follow that their quality of life will go down when it ends. I think you’re creating false division between workers in the imperial core and periphery. It was more true even just 20 years ago than today, but neoliberalization has been eating away at earlier concessions to the working class for decades now.

But you’ve switched gears and are talking about post revolutionary war and degrading of industrial capacity from conflict. That’s just an entirely separate can of worms. I genuinely contend that the US and world in general would be substantially more productive if you ended things like intellectual property, redundant labor due to inefficient competition instead of collaboration, and squandering of productive capacity on non-socially useful endeavors like the MIC and conspicuous consumption. Those are good organizing points for bringing more people around to an anti-imperialist mindset. Plenty of Western leftists can and do accept socialism on anti-imperialist grounds precisely because we recognize we’re in the same class as workers elsewhere in the world. If you’re asking how many American “Socialists” are actually just Vaushites/dem-sucs, I guess I’d answer most of them? But like, they’re not actually educated on political matters. They think the Nordic model is socialism. But that’s not really related to the rest of your claims that I think are out of line with the reality of quality of living and distribution of income.

Yes, re-industrialization can and will eventually happen, but it won’t happen immediately.

It definitely wont happen exactly because there is a reason capitalists moved to the global south in the first place. Industry in the north is not profitable. This will never change unless the north population goes through either some massive economic shock doctrine akin to a WW2/3 scenario or probably massive climate change catastrophe.

Its like every single time we forget history, the only reason why the US industry grew in the first place, the only reason the west managed to industrialize in the first place, the obvious consequences for Germany when they were put on the dead end of industrialization(e.g entirely dependent on imported energy).

If we consider these things the US is far more likely to collapse and balkanize. I expect chuds shooting liberals well before chuds and liberals hands together working in a factory for $5 an hour which is necessary for industrial profitability nowadays.

This is not to say that America will be a bad place to live in, it is simply that its standard of living will be below what its citizens are currently able to “enjoy” (in relative terms to the Global South). Meanwhile, real economic growth will happen in the East where their living standards will be far above the former Imperial Core, and you can expect many skilled talents would seek to emigrate as well.

If by “East” you mean China yeah maybe if we consider the richest cities, otherwise you need some reality checks on what the average work and life condition in Japan and South Korea is like.

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When the dollar is no longer the most desirable asset, its exchange value will plunge, purchasing power will fall, imports will become more expensive, and re-industrialization will be needed to rebuild/reshape its own economy until it has something real to offer to the world. This is going to take decades. Why else would other countries want to sell stuff to America when it doesn’t have anything to offer?

I agree with your broad points throughout this thread although I think that when it gets to this stage, the US will simply balkanize. You make the fair point that state separatism (Texan separatism) is nonviable now because the US can simply sanction the breakaway state and completely destroy that state’s economy. But this relies on dollar hegemony. Without dollar hegemony, the US will internally collapse due to unresolved internal contradictions and the stresses of climate change.

The US isn’t China with 5000 years of history with tradition and institutions that are more than a millennia old and a populace that recognizes its place in that 5000 year old history. The US is an illegitimate settler-colony that’s less than 3 centuries old, less than most major Chinese dynasties. And people might laugh at how Zionists have no ability to handle adversity whatsoever, but if there’s any populace that’s even less likely to handle adversity and even more pampered, it’s Burgerlanders. Can you imagine Burgerlanders eating war rations or having to obey a national curfew when they throw a temper tantrum over wearing a fucking face mask?

National unity only exists because they live high off of hegemony thanks to the dollar. And when that hegemony is taken away, national unity will evaporate overnight. The US is a nation of thieves and when the going gets tough, the thieves will turn on each other.

I think with socialism, countries can reindustrialize fairly quickly though, can’t they? The USSR and China shot up without even having the luxury of the US’s industrialist past, huge wealth they could invest in such efforts, or modern automation techniques.

I think even with a massive re-evaluation of the dollar, that living standards could still increase for a lot of Americans. A large part of the domestic economy is based around the financialization of critical needs, like healthcare and housing, with prices grossly inflated.

Even if things generally get more expensive, so much would be improved for so many people with just guaranteed housing and the ability to go to a doctor. I don’t think the impact of that can be overstated.