• iii
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    2 days ago

    If I say “two plus two equals four”, I’m being objective. My statement should be true regardless of who is saying it, who’s doing the maths, etc.

    Even this is quite subjective, as it builds on the (subjective) acceptance of axioms. To most reading this, they would’ve been educated using the 8 Zermelo-Fraenkel (ZF) axioms, with the controversial 9th axiom of choice.

    • Lvxferre
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      2 days ago

      I disagree that this is subjective. Even if someone hypothetically doesn’t accept the ZF[C], the statement still accurately describes reality, in a way that doesn’t depend on the subject. For example, you can’t start with two apples and two oranges and have five or tree fruits.

      • iii
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        edit-2
        2 days ago

        Yet in some contexts it isn’t as easy as that. You can combine 1 liter of water with 1 liter of alcohol, and get less than 2 liters of fluids. (1)

        • Lvxferre
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          2 days ago

          The volume of a mixture cannot be described by a simple sum of the volume of its components. As such, this does not make the statement “1+1=2” false in this situation; it’s still true but irrelevant, there’s no “+” here on first place.

          Additionally, let us suppose for a moment that the reasoning above is invalid. Even then, it’s still an objective matter - because then the truth value of “1+1=2” would vary depending on the object (are we dealing with apples, or liquid mixtures?), not on the subject (who’s mixing the liquids - you or me?).

          • iii
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            2 days ago

            It’s subjective as in: imagine a different society/species constructing a sense of reality and computation, based on liquid mixtures. Their basis of computation, their axiom is 1l of alcohol + 1l of water = 2l of mixture.

            They meet us, and we exchange ideas.

            They go: of course 1 + 1 = 2, look at our mixture. For fruits, apples and pears? That’s outside of normal arithmetics, it’s an exception. There’s no + there, as you’re not mixing. You have to correct for the non mixture nature, the answer will be larger than 2.

          • iii
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            2 days ago

            1+1=2, except for when it’s not :)