A Chinese whistleblower exposes the brutal tactics used by police and guards at re-education centres in Xinjiang, saying "it's normal that some people die".
I didn’t say I had any beliefs that needed shattering. I looked through the comments of the linked reddit AMA and some people talked about the spread of propaganda but that’s no more compelling than your comments saying the same thing. I’m not sure what I was supposed to take away from that and I hope that you have more substantial reasoning propping up your beliefs.
Back to my original question, in your estimation what is the level of misinformation about Uighur treatment by the CCP? Are Uighurs treated no differently than anyone else in China? Are Uighurs being detained or questioned due to their religious beliefs? Are reeducation camps real? I’m sincerely interested but calling news articles misinformation is not in itself compelling in any way.
The reeducation camps do certainly exist, but why do they exist and what happens in them? The official stance is that they are there to combat religious extremism (Xinjiang has a past of religiously motivated terrorism) and that people are educated in an effort to further that goal (not involving torture or anything in that direction). The fact that there’s a Chinese version of the situation is something to be taken into account.
Any claims of torture or forced labour generally come from individual witnesses like these linked by the OP. You can most certainly find people to support your claims if you have a large enough sample of potential witnesses. You can also find people who claim the opposite (https://yewtu.be/watch?v=p57qyMAySYc (obviously not enough to deny that torture and stuff doesn’t exist, but should be enough to support my point that witnesses that do not confirm it can be found)).
These are things that I think should be taken into consideration when discussing these issues, to remind us that we should also consider the claims of the other side.
I bet you also believed HK rioters were protesting without USA senators giving the rioter leaders a visit…
This is denying any agency from Hong Kong residents. There were large crowds reacting to both specific offenses by the Hong Kong government and more general slights. Polls showed that at least their cause had public support. The instigating event was the introduction of a bill to provide for extradition to China. Because China lacks a strong rule of law, that exposes Hong Kong residents to the whims of China. The subsequent crackdowns, tightening of laws, and arrests of dissidents show that the fear of China’s influence was not unwarranted. It also makes the pro-reunification argument in Taiwan much weaker, since China has by its actions made clear that “one country two systems” was always a lie.
Yes they are surveilled and policed for protection purposes, but the alternative is them becoming terrorists, like some of them did that committed attacks against mainland from 1993-2013.
Whoa whoa whoa. I think you and I have different interpretations of what constitutes “fucked up” because I think what you just said is absolutely fucked and you just casually threw it in the middle of a paragraph. And you worded it like it was fact: “the alternative is them becoming terrorists.” I mean, fuck man.
Are you a fan of the US government surveilling and policing Muslims because “the alternative is them becoming terrorists?” You sound like a talking head on Fox News: “If them Mooslums all wanna be terrorists then the gubment SHOULD be watching them!”
This is my overarching point: you spend a lot of time on here calling people uneducated and bigots and sockpuppets and actors of the state all in the name of unshakable support for a government… which is exactly what the far right in America does for a different government. You/they come off as angry, hostile, and combative. Anything you/they don’t believe is misinformation believed by sheep and you/they are the ultimate arbiters of truth. You weaken your own arguments by equating insult to education and debate.
Most of the times I see you in a thread, you’re stating an opinion as fact or being rude to someone who asks a question or has a different opinion. In your response to me above you said that I “believe blindly that Anglosphere global news press always spoke the truth, and they are the true authority” and that you “have a feeling [I] have made up your mind” because I asked for sources or citations. You “bet I also believe” a bunch of other US-state sponsored propaganda which is a blatent attempt at undermining a platform that I don’t hold and never expressed. I never presented an opinion outside of my hatred for capitalism - I simply asked for information and you jumped on the offensive.
I’m not anti-China. I’m anti-being rude and dismissive when someone asks for information or doesn’t agree with you. You’re a bully and you need to be aware of that. Look at your comment history and tell me I’m wrong.
You’re not changing any minds or any systems by insulting everyone who doesn’t tell you you’re right. You’re obviously angry much of the time, but you’re not using it constructively. Despite your intentions you do more harm than good to your cause.
Naw, you’re just a bully who thinks they’re the smartest person in every room. You don’t have an “authoritarian tone” - you’re not an authority. You’re not a leader and you’re not respected. You’ll never be any of those things while you treat everyone as if they’re below you.
You’re the bizarro version of a Trumper, always right, always angry, and ever more insulting when pressed for relevant facts. In fact, if you’re the official spokesperson for China, fuck that place. You make it sound about as appealing as Tucker Carlson’s America.
You’re wasting your life in comment sections screaming at the wall. People don’t learn or change their minds because an omnipresent username tells them how stupid they are. Your voice is one more angry buzz in an ocean of people who no longer know how to see humans behind each username.
For your own sake, consider a different way. You have to be miserable holding all that anger all the time. There’s no way you’re happy. You can have strong opinions and still not be rude or dismissive to others. In fact, I can guarantee that you’ll have exponentially more success getting your point across.
Removed by mod
I didn’t say I had any beliefs that needed shattering. I looked through the comments of the linked reddit AMA and some people talked about the spread of propaganda but that’s no more compelling than your comments saying the same thing. I’m not sure what I was supposed to take away from that and I hope that you have more substantial reasoning propping up your beliefs.
Back to my original question, in your estimation what is the level of misinformation about Uighur treatment by the CCP? Are Uighurs treated no differently than anyone else in China? Are Uighurs being detained or questioned due to their religious beliefs? Are reeducation camps real? I’m sincerely interested but calling news articles misinformation is not in itself compelling in any way.
The reeducation camps do certainly exist, but why do they exist and what happens in them? The official stance is that they are there to combat religious extremism (Xinjiang has a past of religiously motivated terrorism) and that people are educated in an effort to further that goal (not involving torture or anything in that direction). The fact that there’s a Chinese version of the situation is something to be taken into account.
Any claims of torture or forced labour generally come from individual witnesses like these linked by the OP. You can most certainly find people to support your claims if you have a large enough sample of potential witnesses. You can also find people who claim the opposite (https://yewtu.be/watch?v=p57qyMAySYc (obviously not enough to deny that torture and stuff doesn’t exist, but should be enough to support my point that witnesses that do not confirm it can be found)).
These are things that I think should be taken into consideration when discussing these issues, to remind us that we should also consider the claims of the other side.
Removed by mod
This is denying any agency from Hong Kong residents. There were large crowds reacting to both specific offenses by the Hong Kong government and more general slights. Polls showed that at least their cause had public support. The instigating event was the introduction of a bill to provide for extradition to China. Because China lacks a strong rule of law, that exposes Hong Kong residents to the whims of China. The subsequent crackdowns, tightening of laws, and arrests of dissidents show that the fear of China’s influence was not unwarranted. It also makes the pro-reunification argument in Taiwan much weaker, since China has by its actions made clear that “one country two systems” was always a lie.
Whoa whoa whoa. I think you and I have different interpretations of what constitutes “fucked up” because I think what you just said is absolutely fucked and you just casually threw it in the middle of a paragraph. And you worded it like it was fact: “the alternative is them becoming terrorists.” I mean, fuck man.
Are you a fan of the US government surveilling and policing Muslims because “the alternative is them becoming terrorists?” You sound like a talking head on Fox News: “If them Mooslums all wanna be terrorists then the gubment SHOULD be watching them!”
This is my overarching point: you spend a lot of time on here calling people uneducated and bigots and sockpuppets and actors of the state all in the name of unshakable support for a government… which is exactly what the far right in America does for a different government. You/they come off as angry, hostile, and combative. Anything you/they don’t believe is misinformation believed by sheep and you/they are the ultimate arbiters of truth. You weaken your own arguments by equating insult to education and debate.
Most of the times I see you in a thread, you’re stating an opinion as fact or being rude to someone who asks a question or has a different opinion. In your response to me above you said that I “believe blindly that Anglosphere global news press always spoke the truth, and they are the true authority” and that you “have a feeling [I] have made up your mind” because I asked for sources or citations. You “bet I also believe” a bunch of other US-state sponsored propaganda which is a blatent attempt at undermining a platform that I don’t hold and never expressed. I never presented an opinion outside of my hatred for capitalism - I simply asked for information and you jumped on the offensive.
I’m not anti-China. I’m anti-being rude and dismissive when someone asks for information or doesn’t agree with you. You’re a bully and you need to be aware of that. Look at your comment history and tell me I’m wrong.
You’re not changing any minds or any systems by insulting everyone who doesn’t tell you you’re right. You’re obviously angry much of the time, but you’re not using it constructively. Despite your intentions you do more harm than good to your cause.
Removed by mod
Naw, you’re just a bully who thinks they’re the smartest person in every room. You don’t have an “authoritarian tone” - you’re not an authority. You’re not a leader and you’re not respected. You’ll never be any of those things while you treat everyone as if they’re below you.
You’re the bizarro version of a Trumper, always right, always angry, and ever more insulting when pressed for relevant facts. In fact, if you’re the official spokesperson for China, fuck that place. You make it sound about as appealing as Tucker Carlson’s America.
You’re wasting your life in comment sections screaming at the wall. People don’t learn or change their minds because an omnipresent username tells them how stupid they are. Your voice is one more angry buzz in an ocean of people who no longer know how to see humans behind each username.
For your own sake, consider a different way. You have to be miserable holding all that anger all the time. There’s no way you’re happy. You can have strong opinions and still not be rude or dismissive to others. In fact, I can guarantee that you’ll have exponentially more success getting your point across.