Isn’t it interesting how libs and cons are both fine with the romantic idea of revolution until someone actually seriously suggests doing something drastic? Y’know, in minecraft?
for younger comrades, Jane Fonda is the o.g. anti-imperialist hollywood actress. meeting with communists in vietnam, meeting with Fidel, getting arrested multiple times for protest (most recently on her 82nd birthday), she has been based for most of her life. probably the most hated white woman in the 70s in america lol
It’s honestly amazing she still has a platform.
To the shock of no one, her speaking up like this triggered the fuck out of all the conservative white men. It really shows how threatened they are by a woman saying “extreme” things.
"Hanoi Jane"s real crime was asking american dimwits to stop bombing civilians and civilian infrastructure. If american patriotism requires one to stand beside tools of murder in human suits, then american patriotism is evil for yet one more reason.
Revolutionary action and organisation is the only means of true change. The bourgeoisie have never yielded in the absence of a threat of death in some form.
What good is peacefully marching if fascists can come to a protest, gun down people and leave with impunity?
Which, as I recall, is a thing that happened in 2020. A man walked up to protesters and started unloading a pistol. Wasn’t in the news more than a day.
in the US people also regularly run over protestors with their cars and get away without punishment because “I was scared”
The real kicker is that if an even nominally left-wing movement used violence they would be gutted to the average person in the media…and their own “leftists” would quickly prostrate and show their belly to distance themselves and prove their loyalty to bourgeois civility.
I fear the fascists or the Empire will have to begin an all out war before we are “allowed” to act in self defense, and even then the demonization will continue and affect many more than it should.
And the worst thing is? They have learned from the mistakes, and they now know to levy violence against us at a slow but steady rate. A shooting here, an execution there, a disappearance or domestic sanction or blacklisting here or there. A comfortable, expected amount of police violence. Always making sure to never go to the absurdly extreme lengths it would take to actually shake the sleepy Americans.
Even shows like The Handmaid’s Tale, which takes places in a literal fascist version of the US, has these tropes of ‘violence isn’t always the answer, remember when the fascist did some nice thing this one time?’. They make us feel bad for the fascists when they have a piece of their own cake. No, if you are a fascist that helped to bring about fascism, I don’t care if you were nice to me this one time. You’ll be killed.
Even funnier is that when you look at any war themed american fiction literature coming from conservatives and most liberals, the prevalent idea there is the idea of “preepmtive self defence”
This article is a great intro to the ideology of pacifism.
Great article, thanks for sharing!
My go-to when dealing with the pacifist minded is to bring up the whole “What if an axe murderer broke into your house and was about to kill your whole family?”, or “What if you saw Hitler walking down the street?”
I hope that these questions would at least flustered them and expose them to the idea that, oh wait, not all violence is created equal and sometimes violence IS the right answer, even if only to show them that it’s not black and white and there must be SOME exception. Sometimes this has worked a little, but more than once I had people essentially telling me they would leave Hitler alone and let the murderer kill them and everyone they loved. Which I hope is just a lie and them stupidly and stubbornly defending their original position to the death, I HOPE that that is not actually true because if so frankly that is disgusting to me.
To me, violence is a part of the undeveloped world, animals kill animals, we kill animals, everything is built off of violence. Perhaps as human society develops into and past socialism something like pacifism will have its place, but while it’s still a dog-eat-dog world and we are playing a dog-eat-dog game with our oppressors for power, this shit is going to stay Game of Thrones, and people are letting themselves be enchanted by the spells of their enemies’ words if they are convinced otherwise.
I have similar conversations with my partner from time to time. She is, for lack of a better term, a principled pacifist. I think I really scared her when I said I would indeed try use deadly force to protect my family given the need.
Absolutely. Signaling that you would commit violence–not gleefully, not excessively, not as a first solution to every problem, but only grimly and pragmatically and with heavy heart–makes a lot of Western suburbanites (and adjacent types) very uncomfortable. It makes them look at you different, like some sort of monster or at best someone who is lying or misled.
Show her this classic:
What the actual fuck. This is the most absurd shit I ever read.
The article starts from the unbelievable two consecutive good takes from Orwell of all people.
Isn’t it interesting how libs and cons are both fine with the romantic idea of revolution
Liberal / Hippie revolutionary discourse baffles me to such extent, they’re literally naive enough to think if they are numerous enough their racist neolib governments will be like “I stand corrected and will now fund a massive investment plan in social and environmental justice”
I mean the fact it never ever happened should be a clue but no.
That seems to be the idea getting pushed. With MLK and Ghandi usually used as examples
Which couldn’t achieve anything if the radical wing of their respective movements didn’t scare the shit out of the rulers
I know it, you know it. Now try getting the thought across to libs
Wait, first I need to train on a brick wall, if I make it change its mind I might try libs 🤣
Or they know it works and they don’t want their political opponents to try it. They never ask their extremist allies in Syria or Ukraine to practice non-violence. Only Palestinians, vietnamese people, etc… It’s almost like they know a secret and they don’t want you to know they know.
Absolutely
Libs will routinely glorify democracy all over the world, but routinely forget that it was gained through blood and tears.
All “bloodless peaceful revolutions” like India or the MLK mythos have failed.
I’m not sure that MLK was a pacifist. That’s just how his legacy has been woven since his assassination by someone else who goes by three letters.
That’s why I said “mythos”
Peaceful protest is not just uneffective, it’s stupid. It’s making yourself a target.
The caveat is that spontaneous violence also makes not just individuals targets but entire communities. Like How a lone anarchist will torch a restaurant or something as a means of protest and by effect invite more policing into black neighborhoods.
Violence must be organized.
If anyone is interested, I HIGHLY suggest checking out the movie FTA (Free The Army, based on the 60s 70s Imperialist US Army Motto FTA, Freedom, Travel, Adventure, they also made a song in which FTA stands for Fuck The Army) it’s a movie about the anti-war military shows Jane Fonda was involved in on military bases in Vietnam. Really interesting stuff and pretty funny sketches and skits throughout!
didn’t she allegedly give US military secrets to the Viet Minh?
She also did “propaganda work” for the Viet Cong.
