In the context of recent comments[1][2] made by the admin, I feel the need to bring up some thoughts I have on the relationships between free speech, moderation, impartiality and social issues.
For a start, I need to point out that science – the study and exploration of the unknown – is wrought with politics and social biases. Science could not be conducted without the exchange and preservation of information. Consider the endpoints and media of these exchanges of information. Humans preserve knowledge by storing it within their minds and/or inscribing it onto external media, and then communicating to others how and where to extract this information through social interactions.
Humans are biased and prone to irrationality. We know this. We know that biases dictate the rules and dynamics of social interaction, and that irrationality feeds into the formation of biases and vice versa. There is no such thing as an objective mind or impartial act; at best it is ignorance that counteracts one’s biases, and this is how we try to conduct science. But we can not get any science done by only ever making blind choices in the interest of impartiality and fairness. We have to use moral judgement and intuition in order to make choices. What to research; how to interpret partial data; what conclusions to draw based on limited knowledge; how to even draw conclusions; what questions to ask; what answers to expect; what methods to use; whose interest to serve while prioritising.
The notion that you can just “be rational” and “stick to the science” is misguided. It prevents us from identifying our blindspots and biases. Recognising and acknowledging our limitations in perspective and understanding is vital to our efforts to deepen and widen our understanding of – and existence within – the natural world.
Let’s consider what this means for members of a community such as this instance. When you are exposed to information – whether misleading, false, essential or true – what dictates your response to it is primarily a non-conscious process involving emotions, cognitive/physical state, innate primal instincts, etc. Your ability to reason only ever presents itself after your brain has interpreted the input signals and triggered an autonomic response. For many people, the non-conscious process can in some cases negatively affect their mental or even physical state in a very real and serious way (due to implications, extrapolations or associations of certain types of information - could be tragedy/gore/harassment or more complex triggers), often preventing them from dealing with it in a healthy and constructive manner. It’s more nuanced than simply having or not having a (C-)PTSD diagnosis, and it is no one else’s business to judge whether a person’s inner experience is valid or that they should “suck it up” and “learn to deal with it”. Unless one is an anti-social prick who thinks “survival of the fittest” makes for an excellent slogan and moral basis for a healthy society, of course.
Let’s now consider how this relates to moderators of a community. If someone is responding negatively to some piece of information, one would do well to reflect upon why that may be, and what, if anything, can be reasonably done to prevent that. It is the task a moderator should be concerned with, so that they can form a basis for judgement. Sometimes a person can’t be helped; sometimes it isn’t in a group’s interest to even attempt to fix a person’s personal issues. But it is worth considering the implications when making a choice in who to accommodate. The choice may be passive or active. The former could be letting each person moderate their own experience; the latter could be defederating from instances that only contribute negatively to your community.
So, who should we accommodate? The anti-social extremist lashing out, ranting about conspiracies at anyone who will listen? Do you listen in the hope that it makes them (and… you?) better people or do you shut the door to spare the rest of the room?
What about the trans person ranting about frequent harassment? Do you listen and consider their situation or do you let them figure it out on their own?
What about the autistic science nerd that gets upset over systematic disinformation and pseudoscientific posts populating their feed (and, by induction, everyone else’s)? Do you crack down on those posters or let the nerds fight their own battle in the free marketplace of ideas (I mean, they’re the rational ones with science on their side so they would surely win - sorry, had to sneak in a bit of diatribe)?
What purpose does unconditional (barring illegal conduct and spam) federation serve this instance? Who in this place appreciates the content and values sported by the people over at exploding-heads (for reasons other than absolute principles of freedom)? Forget breaking rules or laws; what potential value does a hypothetical Nazi or religious extremist group bring to this place? In whose interest is this instance acting when making (in)decisions about what other platforms are free to interact with (or at) us?
How do we expect this place to evolve over time as people who appreciate the moderation style here trickle in and remain active while people who are uncomfortable with it slowly evaporate?
We are in the fediverse now, and there is a very important line to be drawn in between “Subscribed”, “Local”, and “All”.
What I am happy to offer others who want to share this instance is that I will do my best to actively moderate the “Local” instance content. This does mean that, if a particular instance becomes problematic - for example, their users disproportionately come to harass users, or they create inappropriate posts directly on the instance, then that instance has a high probability of being blocked after trying to reduce the damage through other means.
What purpose does unconditional (barring illegal conduct and spam) federation serve this instance?
There is no unconditional federation. The condition is clear, and I have stated it. I do not want another instance to create a problem for users minding their own business browsing Locally. If I were to receive many user reports - and I mean reports of specific content - I may also take action even if these are not Local. But I am being asked to block things before users even run into any of this content!! As in, I am pretty sure users have had to go to other instances to learn about exploding-heads, because I have not had any issues here.
I understand that there is a possibility that someone vulnerable may browse by “All” and run into harmful content. That is a valid concern that is shared by the users, and something I think about it. A thing that I do regret at this moment is not having been more clear about being stubborn about defederation, so I have added a new note to the application section so that new users are informed.
I am not claiming to know what is best, and my position is not inflexible. I am reading what you write, and considering perspectives different from mine, but I will admit that I can be stubborn. My current thought is that people should have a choice over how they experience the fediverse, actions should be taken on specific reports, and defederating should be generally avoided.
I understand that some people would prefer to be part of an instance in which the administrator is responsible for curating the way that they are able to interact with the rest of the fediverse. There are already many that do that. But maybe there are no other science-focused instances that do that, so I extend an offer to help any of you to build a science-based instance with a more stringent federation policy. I made a video tutorial a while ago (here), most of which still applies. But I can provide more updated information, guide you through the process, and provide some degree of tech support when needed in the future. I hope that you can at least consider this to be a fair compromise, because I know my stubborness in this won’t make anyone happy. I would be genuinely very happy to help anyone build an instance.
I appreciate the considered response.
Let me prefix that I am stubborn as well, but in the opposite direction. I would rather have a dead forum than one full of toxic discourse. If discussion is going to make people feel worse and not be of any real benefit to anyone, it might as well not take place at all. It’s similar to the issue of being open-minded; if your mind is too open your brain may just fall out and you would have been better off just being overly skeptical. There’s no benefit to absorbing any and all things presented to you, and presenting it as some sort of virtue is weird. You may not think you are (or maybe you do), but you are implicitly presenting it as a virtue when you tell individuals to actively filter their own content. It becomes whack-a-mole for each and every one of us and by making toxic content visible the default, it suggests that blocking it is just like a personal prerogative. That the person is somehow sensitive for not wanting those turds floating around and you keep allowing the same people to continue to pour buckets of turds into their pool.
We are in the fediverse now, and there is a very important line to be drawn in between “Subscribed”, “Local”, and “All”.
I understand that there is a possibility that someone vulnerable may browse by “All” and run into harmful content.
The problem is greater than that. As long as we are federated with instances rife with bad actors, their posts, comments and votes will appear in communities we are subscribed to as well. Fortunately (well, in a sense), most instances are better moderated than this one and so communities hosted on their instances will not be accessible to the worst instances. Their protection then extends to us (well… whoever ends up sticking around), but there’s nothing preventing hate groups from harassing people here via communities on this instance, via PMs, or communities on other unmoderated instances.
If I were to receive many user reports - and I mean reports of specific content - I may also take action even if these are not Local. But I am being asked to block things before users even run into any of this content!! As in, I am pretty sure users have had to go to other instances to learn about exploding-heads, because I have not had any issues here.
Whether you have “run into” bad content or not is irrelevant. If members of this instance are made uncomfortable by what they see in All, in comments here and there, or worse, in PMs, that becomes your problem because you are responsible for what type of content this place allows. I hope you read the article about evaporative cooling because regardless of how you feel about people being made to feel merely uncomfortable on your instance, those people will eventually go away and be replaced by people you may not want to represent this place. This will happen slowly and once you realise, it’s probably too late.
Another property of your stance is that it is inherently reactive. You require that people have a sour or harmful experience before maybe taking action, and based on your stated philosophy, probably not nearly as drastic action as would be necessary to really fix the problem. You can’t just ban a person from an instance full of equally ‘bad’ people and expect that to be enough. The core principle of not being presumptuous or excluding may come from a good place, but it’s misapplied and you won’t be appreciated for it by people you would want to appreciate you.
I’m being quite prescriptive here. But to moderate and maintain a healthy community you need to be proactive. Your job as a moderator and admin is to prevent people from having a bad experience. You are not a police officer that goes around punishing people for behaving badly in the name of justice. Banning and defederating is not a device for punishment, it is a tool for carving out your own space. One that reflects your moral values. And yes, your moral values should be reflected in how you run this place, because as I’ve already argued, a person can not be impartial other than by chance. Let people who find your moral framework agreeable come here and subject themselves to your judgement out of trust. That, in my opinion, is how a good, cohesive community organically emerges.
Again, trying to act impartial only obfuscates your biases and people can’t rely on your judgement if they don’t know where they have you. It only opens you up to complaints about arbitrary and inconsistent enforcement of whatever rules you may eventually come up with.
This is what you open yourself up to, letting extreme instances lurk in the background. They were built on the Fediverse (pleroma): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms Moderation is a game of whack-a-mole.
You’re basically telling us “if you don’t like it then leave”, and yeah, sure, we’re not hostages here. We chose to be here and we can choose to leave. Leaving is no big deal on its own, I have accounts on other instances. I have the technical skills to start my own instance, just other reasons why I won’t. I could even leave Lemmy altogether and my life would carry on. I’m still commenting here because I’m also stubborn I guess.
My current thought is that people should have a choice over how they experience the fediverse
Absolutely, but note that the if you don’t like it then leave also goes for any other instance, including places like exploding-heads. We’re not proposing to exclude individuals that cannot help being who they are. They are there because they actively choose to be, and stand for whatever is happening there. Again, what is the value in keeping that contact open?
You cannot be a neutral actor, this is impossible. With every decision you make, you’re making a stand, in one way or another, even by inaction. Even if you don’t mean or realize it, you are implicitly standing for the values of the places you’re too afraid to block, over the values of many of your users who are already here, discussing this. You indicate that you can’t admin a community of vulnerable people, but who is vulnerable? Who is not vulnerable? What kind of people are you looking for? If we were to make an instance that curates federation with others, you would call that restricted, but aren’t you actually restricting this place to a specific kind of people?
This is literally the paradox of tolerance.
The condition is clear, and I have stated it. I do not want another instance to create a problem for users minding their own business browsing Locally. If I were to receive many user reports - and I mean reports of specific content - I may also take action even if these are not Local.
What would you consider a problem? What is the kind of specific content that would make you act? Because at this point I’m believing that even if we report something, you might think “it’s not a big deal”, “sorry you feel offended but they didn’t break any rules”, etc. You mention that you’ve never experienced harassment, and you haven’t seen it? How would you react to an user reporting harassment if you don’t believe it’s harassment?
I’m not trying to change your mind, but maybe give something to think about. As I said, leaving this place is not a big deal.
By Godwin’s Law you have lost this internet arguement. Have a nice day.
