Hello all,

Just to provide some background, I’ve been using Linux since 2000.

My distro experience is somewhat limited as I’ve only used RedHat-based and Debian-based distros like RedHat 6, Mandrake, Ubuntu (and its various flavors), CentOS and pure Debian. Over the years I’ve used multiple desktop environments, starting with KDE 2 and 3, Windowmaker, then Gnome 2 and MATE, XFCE and finally KDE 5. I’ve used KDE 4 when it was released with Kubuntu, but it was a complete disaster. Unity was really not my cup of tea either. And I’ve tried using Gnome 3, but it feels more like a tablet-oriented UI than anything else.

Lately with the rise of Linux gaming, people are asking around about what’s the best distro for a newbie gamer. A lot of people have been recommending Fedora, or even OpenSUSE tumbleweed for their more up to date software packages. Ubuntu less so because a lot of people are disgruntled about Snaps or the telemetry data sent to Canonical. But, a few that stood out to me were POP! OS, Endeavour OS and Elementary OS. So I decided to try them out.

I started with Endeavour OS because it is based on Arch which gained a lot in popularity. Endeavour OS is supposed to be more user-friendly and stable compared to Arch which is more for power users with bleeding edge software packages that can often contain bugs. I’ve never used Arch or any Arch-based distros before. The installation was simple and I really liked that it offered to select which desktop environment to install with a pretty big list of options. I also liked the welcome app and all its options including links to Arch-specific documentation like the package management system with video tutorials. I picked KDE for the desktop which is pretty standard. The OS was very snappy in my VM which was set up with 16GB RAM and 12 cores in Qemu. I was able to change resolution pretty easily without any issue and could get right to work. However, Endeavour might not be suitable for a Linux beginner. A lot of the tools and configurations are command-line based which is not the most user-friendly. I also find the packaging system to be a bit complicated with Pacman and Yay compared to others, but I haven’t messed around with it too much. I was disappointed in the lack of a UI tool for browsing and managing software packages.

Then I tried POP! OS. This distro is Ubuntu-based which I’m already pretty comfortable with and is very popular. It has a lot of existing documentation and a huge community behind it. The installation was also pretty simple. The deskop is Gnome 3 with a custom theme, extensions and dock. I personally never really liked Gnome because everything takes so much space on the desktop. Window title bars and other controls seem too big. POP! has this same issue in my opinion. Everything looks big and kind of cartoon-y. Like it’s a desktop meant for kids. But since this distro was aimed at gamers, I guess it supposed to look fun in that way. One thing I like about Gnome 3 however, is that there aren’t a lot of customizations available out of the box, which ensures everyone has the same experience. Too many customizations, like with KDE, can be a big overwhelming and if you mess around too much you can end up with a broken UI. I really like the POP Shop app as well which gives a good list of top picks. And the presentation is very nice and clean with a beautiful design. Most tasks can be done through a graphical app. I think the only app missing here would be something like Synaptic or Muon to manage Debian packages without using the command line. Overall it’s a very simple and easy to use OS for any beginner, although new Linux users might be confused by the desktop environment that is very different from Windows and not quite like the Mac OS. It could probably use a welcome app like Endeavour with a couple of tutorial videos to guide new users around the UI.

Finally, I tried Elementary OS. This was my favourite out of the three, even though it had some issues out of the box. This is another Ubuntu-based distro, so again I’m very familiar with it. The people behind Elementary OS wanted to provide an experience as close to the Mac OS as possible without getting sued. And I gotta say, they really achieved that goal. The installation was very easy. And when I logged in for the first time, I was very pleased with the desktop environment. The desktop is basically highly customized Gnome 3 desktop. But, they made some tweaks to the UI that make it look a lot more elegant. Unlike in a default Gnome 3 desktop or the POP! desktop mentioned above, the various UI elements don’t take as much space. The dock is clean and very easy to use and very reminiscent of the Mac OS dock. Anyone who ever used a Mac before will be in their element with this distro. I love the overall simplicity. The file browser is awesome and has the same column-based browsing as in the Mac OS, which is something I always envied. There’s also a bunch of keyboard shortcuts like the Mac OS. You can get a list on screen just by pressing the META (Win) key by itself, which is great for new users. The system tray is simple with a practical notification area. The App Center reminds me of the POP Shop. Actually I think they’re both kind of the same with a bit of re-branding and different suggestions. However, I was not able to install Muon or Synaptic out of the box to manage Debian packages and repos. The default browser out of the box is Gnome Web (Epiphany) and it had issues rendering pages right away. I had to install Flatseal through a Flatpak using the command line to modify permissions to make it work. I immediately installed Firefox through a Flatpak afterwards, though the browser was available in the AppCenter. Another bug was with the docker, which hides by default when you maximize a window. When moving the pointer to the bottom of the screen, the dock wouldn’t pop up as expected. So I had to make it show at all times through the system settings. Speaking of the system settings, I love its simplicity. There’s practically no way you can mess up your desktop but you can still tweak a few elements. Honestly, Elementary OS is what Gnome 3 should look like out of the box. It’s so clean and beautiful. I honestly fell in love with that environment. I am highly considering using it as a daily driver.

  • Deckweiss@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    10
    ·
    edit-2
    10 months ago

    I also find the packaging system to be a bit complicated with Pacman and Yay compared to others, but I haven’t messed around with it too much. I was disappointed in the lack of a UI tool for browsing and managing software packages.

    I’m on regular old archlinux and I use pamac, because I like gui package managers.

    Works great for me and it can be set up to combine the arch repos, AUR, flatpak and snap (or any subset of these). That way you don’t need multiple seperate tools. Which is great.

    People hate on it, because arch users prefer commandline. And also because pamac devs messed up badly a couple of times, but as far as I can tell the developers are quick to fix any problems and there have been no major incidents recently.


    In general I would say, arch does no handholding and lets you do anything you want. If you set up your system in a bad way, you will have a bad experience. And you need lots of knowledge of tools, packages, custom solutions and configs to perfectly tailor it to your needs. Which is not good for beginners, but great for experienced Linux users.

  • hperrin@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    10 months ago

    I’m a big fan of how big the controls are in Gnome because they’re easier to click/tap/grab. To each their own.

    • Cyborganism@lemmy.caOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      10 months ago

      Honestly, to me the best desktop UI has to go to Windows 10. I feel like I can drive that thing blindfolded. No screen space is wasted. You can throw the mouse in the bottom left corner and know 100% that you’re gonna hit the start menu button. With Power Toys it just makes it even better. I’ve only been able to reproduce that with KDE.

      • acockworkorange
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        10 months ago

        Oh. Ow. Ouch. I resp… 🤢 respect your… 🤢 your opinion.

  • Guenther_Amanita@feddit.de
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    10 months ago

    I have to admit that I didn’t read everything thoroughly, but the issues you described with some distros seem to be more related to the DE or minor missing pre-installed software than the distro itself (e.g. package manager).

    Here’s a link to a post I recently made, maybe you can make some use out of it, even though you aren’t a total beginner: https://feddit.de/post/9087676

    I think you would be happy with either plain Debian (feels a bit more conservative) or Fedora Atomic, especially uBlue.
    The latter one is more up-to-date and is part of a new family of distros, called image based distros (“immutable”).
    It’s pretty much impossible to break and you can switch between different spins (DE variants) super easily if you aren’t sure yet what to pick.

    Both have a huge lot of DEs available, including Pantheon (the desktop of ElementaryOS, which is not based on Gnome btw), Gnome (which you can modify yourself how you want it to be) or Cinnamon, which sounds ideal for you.

    • Cyborganism@lemmy.caOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      10 months ago

      Thanks!

      Yeah I messed up about Elementary OS and it’s DE. You’re right it’s Pantheon. But it looks like a customized Gnome 3. In fact you can install a tweak tool where you can modify some features which appear to be Gnome. Maybe that’s what confused me.

  • Throwaway1234@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    10 months ago

    Thank you OP for sharing your evaluations on these distros! Everyone has their own biases, but they can still become valuable whenever more than one item/article is evaluated. Which is exactly what you’ve done. So kudos to you!

    people are asking around about what’s the best distro for a newbie gamer

    “newbie gamer” sounds cute. Did you mean newbie to Linux instead? Or perhaps newbie to Linux gaming?

    Furthermore, are you also interested into a distro for yourself? Or to recommend to others? Or were you just interested in some of the distros you’ve been seeing and wanted to try a couple of them out?

    I am highly considering using it as a daily driver.

    Which would imply that you’re at least (somewhat) interested in exploring a different daily driver. Are there any reasons you want to let go of your current daily driver?

    • Cyborganism@lemmy.caOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      10 months ago

      “newbie gamer” sounds cute. Did you mean newbie to Linux instead? Or perhaps newbie to Linux gaming?

      Hahaha yeah that’s what I meant. For a newbie Linux user rather than gamer.

      Furthermore, are you also interested into a distro for yourself? Or to recommend to others? Or were you just interested in some of the distros you’ve been seeing and wanted to try a couple of them out?

      I really don’t know. I’ve been using Ubuntu for so damn long now that it’s just comfortable to work with. I know all the dpkg and apt commands by heart and I know where to find everything when I need to really customize my system. Plus they have great support for 3rd party drivers for things like NVidia which is great. But, I’m really wary about the whole telemetry thing and sending package and usage data to Canonical. Plus, they’ve been pushing snaps pretty hard to a point that they sneak snap packages instead of installing the actual deb package when using apt. I don’t like being forced into using things like that without my express consent. So, yeah I’ve been thinking of switching.

      I’ve been hearing about all those other new ones and was curious. I’ve been meaning to try them out for fun and who knows, maybe find my next daily?

      Which would imply that you’re at least (somewhat) interested in exploring a different daily driver. Are there any reasons you want to let go of your current daily driver?

      Well I guess I answered your question there lol.

      • Throwaway1234@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        10 months ago

        I really don’t know. I’ve been using Ubuntu for so damn long now that it’s just comfortable to work with. I know all the dpkg and apt commands by heart and I know where to find everything when I need to really customize my system. Plus they have great support for 3rd party drivers for things like NVidia which is great. But, I’m really wary about the whole telemetry thing and sending package and usage data to Canonical. Plus, they’ve been pushing snaps pretty hard to a point that they sneak snap packages instead of installing the actual deb package when using apt. I don’t like being forced into using things like that without my express consent. So, yeah I’ve been thinking of switching.

        Thanks for the excellent elaboration! It’s almost sad to see how the great have fallen… And I’d have to agree with most of your thoughts. Ultimately, it’s your choice to make. But if I’d have to share my two cents, then I would say:

        • Even if you’re positive on departing from Ubuntu, you don’t have to forsake it for something entirely different; which is where I would put any non-Debian-based distro (which includes EndeavourOS).
        • There are a lot of distros that are based on either Debian or Ubuntu which should be able to remind you of the good ol’ Ubuntu. Besides Elementary OS and Pop!_OS, there are other popular picks like Linux Mint and Zorin OS. And we haven’t even mentioned the likes of KDE Neon, MX Linux, Rhino Linux, SparkyLinux, SpiralLinux, Tuxedo OS, Vanilla OS etc or heck, just plain ol’ Debian itself. I think as long as it’s Debian/Ubuntu-based and your favourite Desktop Environment is well-supported, then it’s at least a distro worth considering.
        • oo1@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          10 months ago

          +1 for pure debian, it is a lot better out of the box / for newbs now that it enables non-free-firmware on install (v12 onwards).
          lots of choices too on desktop.

          My only bother is that i’m keen to try KDE 6, and don’t know how long it’ll be til that at least makes it to Debian testing.

          • Throwaway1234@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            10 months ago

            I’m personally also most fond of picking the independent (so not a derivative) distro that best suits your needs and customize it from there, unless the planned modifications are hard and/or cumbersome to realize and a popular derivative that streamlines most of that already exists.

        • Cyborganism@lemmy.caOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          10 months ago

          Yeah Neon is high on my list. It’s a shame LTS Ubuntu is so far behind the latest development. Neon would fix that.

            • Cyborganism@lemmy.caOP
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              10 months ago

              Well it’s off to a bad start.

              Upon finishing the installation and booting into it in my Qemu VM, I switched between the global themes and already it broke the appearance. Then I did a system update and rebooted and I was never able to boot back into the OS. It freezes at the grub menu.

              I’m reinstalling it right now to give it a second chance.

              • Throwaway1234@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                10 months ago

                As I’ve been daily driving Fedora Silverblue for almost two years now, I always am astonished whenever I hear horror stories from other users that have broken their systems due to seemingly innocent actions. I hope this was just a dud due to the VM environment and isn’t representative of KDE Neon’s stability; which I’ve actually heard good things about*.

                • Cyborganism@lemmy.caOP
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  10 months ago

                  Yeah I don’t know what’s going on. Maybe it is the VM. I’ve reinstalled it, didn’t change a thing and ran the updates, rebooted and the same result. I’m stuck at the grub menu.

                  Maybe I should just stick with a stable KDE release like Kubuntu 24.04 LTS that’s coming up if I’m going to use an Ubuntu based KDE distro.

  • Pantherina@feddit.de
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    3
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    10 months ago

    Agree a lot. GNOME doesnt look like a professional workstation UI, things are too big and especially the damn decorations dont have their hitbox in the very corner.

    But also agree on customization, its a double edged sword.

    Very interesting take about Muon, forgot that existed (as I was pretty short on Kubuntu/MXLinux and quite some time ago). But agree, this is better than full GUI for non-Appstream apps or Terminal.

    You will like KDE 6 I suppose! Will be out soon.

    • BCsven@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      10 months ago

      GNOME

      I think the font size for title will be in gnome tweaks, the header bar and other decorations can be adjusted in the pixel padding in dconf editor