It sucks, but this sub now may have to consider changing it’s name to workreform because of this. Plus workreform is a much better description of the movement.
Anytime I mentioned antiwork to someone, the first thought they had was lazy people not wanting to work and I would have to explain the movement. After explaining everything and making good points, they would just stare at me and then ask ‘why is it called antwork’?
The work reform name explains itself. And who wouldn’t want to improve and reform their workplace. Its instantly much more relateable.
Antiwork as a concept only makes sense in the context of being against the way work is structured under capitalism. The fundamental idea behind work is that certain things need to be done in order for people to live whether people like doing these things or not. We need to produce food, build housing, provide sanitation, healthcare, and all the other things that make a society function. Focusing on labor organization such as forming unions, starting cooperatives, and other ways for workers to take control seems as a more productive way to move forward.
You didn’t address my point. I completely agree with the concept of bullshit jobs, and working towards minimizing required work. However, the concept of work doesn’t go away in any foreseeable future. The real issue is with who decides on the purpose of work and nature of work.
Under capitalism, the means of production are largely owned by a small group of capitalists and the purpose of work is to create further wealth for these people. Any social benefit from work is strictly incidental, and much of this work can even be actively harmful to society. Corporate lobbyists are an example of a job that creates negative social value that would be considered a bullshit job. Furthermore, workplaces are run as dictatorships where the owners get to unilaterally decide how the work is done, and what rights the employees have.
I think that the purpose of work should be to create social value first and foremost. Any required work should be directed towards making life better for everyone. The only way we can achieve that is through public ownership. We need to move away from the capitalist model and move towards socialism where ownership of the means of production is in the hands of the general public. And of course, it should be the workers who make all the decisions regarding how they work.
Simply focusing on antiwork misses the bigger picture and fails to provide emancipation for the people who make our society run.
I’d argue it’s very much relevant to theory behind the whole concept. I’ve read Geaeber, and I’m not jumping to any conclusions here as far as I can tell. Nowhere does Graeber argue that work as a concept would disappear in the foreseeable future. I don’t see Russell arguing anything of the sort either. Since you’re clearly caught up on the theory, why don’t you address the point I made for everyone’s benefit.
It sucks, but this sub now may have to consider changing it’s name to workreform because of this. Plus workreform is a much better description of the movement.
I do think work reform is a much better description as well.
I vote for work reform name change.
Anytime I mentioned antiwork to someone, the first thought they had was lazy people not wanting to work and I would have to explain the movement. After explaining everything and making good points, they would just stare at me and then ask ‘why is it called antwork’?
The work reform name explains itself. And who wouldn’t want to improve and reform their workplace. Its instantly much more relateable.
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~~yes, but this: https://old.reddit.com/r/COMPLETEANARCHY/comments/sdjivd/rworkreform_is_a_liberal_attempt_to_coopt_a/~~
edit: nevermind, mod response: https://www.reddit.com/r/WorkReform/comments/sdp8gn/yeah_i_work_in_a_bank_taking_calls_assisting/
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Antiwork as a concept only makes sense in the context of being against the way work is structured under capitalism. The fundamental idea behind work is that certain things need to be done in order for people to live whether people like doing these things or not. We need to produce food, build housing, provide sanitation, healthcare, and all the other things that make a society function. Focusing on labor organization such as forming unions, starting cooperatives, and other ways for workers to take control seems as a more productive way to move forward.
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You didn’t address my point. I completely agree with the concept of bullshit jobs, and working towards minimizing required work. However, the concept of work doesn’t go away in any foreseeable future. The real issue is with who decides on the purpose of work and nature of work.
Under capitalism, the means of production are largely owned by a small group of capitalists and the purpose of work is to create further wealth for these people. Any social benefit from work is strictly incidental, and much of this work can even be actively harmful to society. Corporate lobbyists are an example of a job that creates negative social value that would be considered a bullshit job. Furthermore, workplaces are run as dictatorships where the owners get to unilaterally decide how the work is done, and what rights the employees have.
I think that the purpose of work should be to create social value first and foremost. Any required work should be directed towards making life better for everyone. The only way we can achieve that is through public ownership. We need to move away from the capitalist model and move towards socialism where ownership of the means of production is in the hands of the general public. And of course, it should be the workers who make all the decisions regarding how they work.
Simply focusing on antiwork misses the bigger picture and fails to provide emancipation for the people who make our society run.
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I’d argue it’s very much relevant to theory behind the whole concept. I’ve read Geaeber, and I’m not jumping to any conclusions here as far as I can tell. Nowhere does Graeber argue that work as a concept would disappear in the foreseeable future. I don’t see Russell arguing anything of the sort either. Since you’re clearly caught up on the theory, why don’t you address the point I made for everyone’s benefit.
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