- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
Summary
The International Criminal Court (ICC) has issued arrest warrants for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, former defense minister Yoav Gallant, and Hamas officials, accusing them of war crimes and crimes against humanity in Gaza and during the October 2023 attacks.
The court alleges actions like depriving Gaza civilians of essential resources.
Israel and the U.S., non-members of the ICC, reject the warrants, with Netanyahu calling them antisemitic.
Hamas also criticized the decision.
The practical enforcement of these warrants remains uncertain, as the ICC lacks authority to compel arrests.
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Netanyahu and other Israeli leaders have condemned ICC Chief Prosecutor Karim Khan’s request for warrants as disgraceful and antisemitic.
Antisemitism does manifest itself in both casual and systematic forms. The region-specific component is also important.
However, claims regarding antisemitism from the Israeli government are increasingly becoming a “reverse confirmation” of sorts. One could almost argue that if they call something antisemitic, chances are it’s actually not and may even be the correct course of action (clear cut cases notwithstanding).
As a Jew, I’m becoming desensitized to the word “antisemitic.” Even my Israeli cousins overuse the word and can’t explain to me how this kind of shit is antisemitism beyond “Hamas wants to kill us.”
“You can’t cry wolf and BE the wolves. Do you not understand what the villagers do to wolves?”
the Palestinians did not get to choose the ethnicity of their oppressors.
The brits? The ottomans?
And most recently, the Israeli government.
I wonder where this vehement outrage was when the iraquis and turks kill kurds 🙃or when uighurs ger marched to camps. Are you seriously trying to make the case that it has nothing to do with antisemitism?
I mean, I also don’t agree with either of those things. I stopped buying as many Chinese goods as possible because of the Uighurs’ treatment. There’s not much I can do about the Kurds other than support our government arming them? It really fighting sucks and so do religious extremists any kind.
It sucks but it’s all a gray area and everyone is an asshole I guess. However, wiping out a population because some of them are assholes is never going to be the answer.
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Decrying the persecution of crimes against humanity as antisemitic is quite something. It begs the question then, what these people see inherently Semitic about perpetrating these crimes.
The blatant misuse of this term is actually very harmful to Jews around the world, since calls of those actually suffering from anti-Jewish sentiment are not taken seriously anymore.
“Chef overcooked my burger. Antisemite.” -Uncle Leo -Jerry Seinfeld
It’s the local variant of fake news.
https://holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definition-antisemitism
That’s the definition they use, so anything you say against the State they see as being against the ethnicity, which doesn’t make sense.
Netanyahu and other Israeli leaders have condemned request for warrants as disgraceful and antisemitic.
I wasn’t aware he was a stand up comedian. I mean, I always knew he was a clown.
TLDR: it’s not antisemitic, it’s just anti-Bibi.
It’s like how if some random dipshit harms someone else they go “Oh, so it’s okay to hate men? I’m a man so I’m the bad guy?”
When no, you’re the one who assalted someone. What you are doesn’t define actions.
What region-specific component are you referring to? I’m genuinely asking, not being argumentative. I completely agree that holding Netanyahu accountable for war crimes is not antisemitism, let alone the ICC charging leaders on both sides of the conflict.
I am looking at it from a more abstract, generic perspective.
When you lose the right to freely travel, work, live in your country. There is going to be a lot of animosity around this. I don’t think it is fair to purely attribute this to a discriminatory attitude.
Cue “ICC is antisemitic”, just like the ICJ, the UN, every human rights organisation, the Special Rapporteur, independent journalists, protestors etc etc.
Antisemitism and victimhood are the only cards left for Zio fascists to play with.
The original Nazis would always claim that they represented the Arian Race and that any criticism of them was “against the Arian Race” and the Zionists, a Neue Nazi group, do the same only using a different ethnicity.
This is far from the only way in which these Neue Nazis are the same as the original Nazis.
Zio fascists
*nazis
I heard that Bibi stubbed his toe on an antisemetic table this morning.
Bibi has a table that prevents vomiting? What else is that bastard hiding?!
Lmao thanks for pointing out the typo. Or perhaps it’s the zionists that keep making a mistake and are trying to tell us that ending the genocide in Gaza helps them throw up less?
Who’d have thunk that 2000 years of conflict was all a misunderstanding about spelling…
Who’d have thunk that 2000 years of conflict …
It hasnt been 2000 years of conflict. Thats a zionist propganda talking point filthy lie, and shame on you for bringing lies here. Go to reddit with that crap.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire
The experience of Jews in the Ottoman Empire is particularly significant because the region “provided a principal place of refuge for Jews driven out of Western Europe by massacres and persecution.”
The Ottoman empire was there until recently, spanning 800 years and jewish people were safe and prospered. Its only since the zionists surged back that its been a shitshow. Going back 2000 years, it was a shitshow when the zealot faction of judaism (which is exactly the same faction as modern zionists) committed mass genocide of greeks and romans in the region to establish a jewish state on roman territory and then were put down hard by the romans.
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‘‘How are you today?’’ ‘‘That’s an antisemitic question.’’
That’s what the constant cry wolf has lead to. The absurd has become real.
They’ve been preparing for this for a while. Months ago already I remember reading accusations of the ICC being antisemitic by Israelis and various sympathisers. The old fiddle that never stops playing.
It goes waaaay back
https://www.972mag.com/icc-israel-surveillance-investigation/
Those warrants aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on, but it’s still nice to see official bodies outside the US calling Netanyahu what he is.
Those warrants are worth a lot. Not enough to put them behind bars, but still a lot!
These warrants absolutely matter in terms of being a trumo card in several legal issues relating to EU-Israel relations.
It’s a nice thought. I won’t hold my breath expecting any real consequences for Israel, though.
The saddest thing is that if they do take action, it will be the lowest bar possible of accountability. They’ll for example ban products from illegal settlements and then let Israel redurect them anyways.
Not exactly. The ratifying countries are bound by contract to arrest them. Plus It’s a serious issue not to do it, because this would delegitimize the ICC as an institution, which is not in the interest of most ratifying countries. So it essentially boils down to a choice between losing the court as a valuable weapon against war criminals or bad relations with Israel.
What happens after an arrest is another matter and I think that is where the real pressure would happen
“Bound by contract”, lol…
Are you familiar with Donald Trump?
The US isn’t part of the ICC because we commit too many war crimes.
Not really, if a group of spies got together and kidnapped him to a country that respects the ICC he would be arrested. Just like this
God they really just play the antisemitism card for everything
It’s the only card they have
I remember when the people who said ‘if you call everything Nazism, then what are you going to do when the real Nazis arrive’ ended up being Nazis themselves… who did not shy away from calling their opposition fascist and Nazis even when they were wearing Swastikas on them.
Zionists are the same. The exact same. They are remarkably antisemitic (look up the founder of Zionism, Theodor Herzl. The guy was a RAGING antisemite!) but at the same time throw that accusation left and right at anything that even remotely disapproves of their actions.
Finally the only sensible response to what is happening in Israel.
Arrest the leaders on both sides!
It seems that the Hamas leader they’ve listed the warrant for might already be dead though. I guess if he turns up less dead than expected in a member country they can nab him with the warrant
This has happened already, it’s now the 2nd time they’ve issued the warrent.
This is just the first time the story was allowed through the US media wall
I remember saying this should be done at the start of the conflict and I was called a genocide loving Nazi for saying Hamas was just as bad. Hamas leaders are wealthy old men who live in luxury outside of Gaza
Sinwar and the others listed in the warrant were inside Gaza. Pretending otherwise was part of Israeli propaganda
Are you still going with this “Hamas are the good guys” bullshit?
That’s not what I said, I said that it’s propaganda to pretend Hamas’ leaders are not in Gaza.
So the reports saying they’re not there, fake news. The reports saying they are, Believe it without question?
What country was Sinwar found in again? A spokesman or negotiator in Qatar is not the same as the leadership. Try again.
The US and others were fine with it when they issued a warrant for Putin, I’m sure they’ll be on board for this as well, right?
This makes us look weak and hypocritical to the rest of the world. Stop the unjust war of aggression and annexation! No wait, I meant the other one. This one is a-OK.
This is part of the collapse of American soft power around the world.
One thing that many people in America have already learned the hard way, is that conservative Americans could not care less about being hypocritical. In fact, I’m convinced that some see it as a plus because while it means nothing to them, it always seems to “trigger the libs”.
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I’m sure if the US could have vetoed the warrant, they would have.
This is the correct call! A majority of Palestinians and Israeli do not want war. It’s a few bad apples on both sides and they should all be jailed.
As someone living in Israel, that’s a nice thought but a fundamental misunderstanding of Israeli politics. The vast majority of Israelis not only support war but support a complete and total genocide of every Muslim in the middle east. Furthermore a very large amount of Israelis see the hostages as an acceptable loss if it means they can kill more Palestinian civilians. Its not “a few bad apples”, Israel is a fundamentally rotten “nation” that only exists on genocide and war.
I’ve heard that it’s quite jarring to be living in Israel as someone who’s progressive. Like, it’s not just about state suppression of protests, but the levels of social condemnation that you get when the media landscape is so heavily skewed
Yes, I get socially ostracized whenever I express any even slightly left wing points. Hell even pointing out the nearly 50k dead Palestinian civilians causes people to respond angrily and with comments like “they brought it upon themselves” or “it’s the fault of Hamas exclusively”
No one wants their lives disrupted by war. Settlers and the army do not represent the majority.
The vast majority of Israelis either directly or indirectly support the army. Even the most progressive Israelis (specifically people who call themselves Israeli) will rarely speak out against war crimes.
They don’t see their lives as being disrupted any more than usual. That’s the problem.
A war with the middle east is not normal disruption. No one wants to experience a war specially families on both ends.
Tell that to the families in Tel Aviv. They are not having the same experience as a family in Lebanon.
They were bombed by Iran. I guess you are super brave to think the thought of death as not a bid deal. I think isreal is committing genocide lets get that straight. There are a lot of families that dont want to fear death everyday.
Iran’s missiles didn’t stand a chance.
Israelis are largely in favor of it. Netanyahus approval has skyrocketed, when they launched the offensive on Lebanon and Israelis opposing the wars and occupation are increasingly targeted by the government and government affiliated “settler” terror groups. These terror groups have ramped up their pogroms in East Jerusalem and the West Bank and decent Israelis who get in their way are beaten while the IDF watches.
Genocide takes a lot more than a few bad apples making a whoopsie.
Make no mistake, this war is the culmination of multiple decades of extremist Israeli and Palestinian politics in which the worst possible human beings on both sides were propped up by a populace that has been blinded by decades of hate for the other.
This is what Netanyahu and Hamas have always wanted, and what they were always working towards.
Zionism is a fascist settler colonialist ideology that has always been set on the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Anti-colonialist resistance for liberation and peace is not equivalent to Colonialist supremacy
Ethnic Cleansing is fundamental to Zionism
Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of European imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for thenewcomers.
The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. Indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat.
An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.
Settlements and Occupation
Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades.
This type of settlement, where the native population gets ‘Transferred’ to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice.
- The Transfer Committee, and the JNF Ethnic Cleansing, which led to Forced Displacement of 100,000 Palestinians throughout the mandate before the Nakba
The mass ethnic cleansing campaign of 1948:
Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967:
While the peace process was exploited to continue de-facto annexation of the West Bank via Settlements
The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians.
The apartheid regime is based on organized, systemic violence against Palestinians, which is carried out by numerous agents: the government, the military, the Civil Administration, the Supreme Court, the Israel Police, the Israel Security Agency, the Israel Prison Service, the Israel Nature and Parks Authority, and others. Settlers are another item on this list, and the state incorporates their violence into its own official acts of violence. Settler violence sometimes precedes instances of official violence by Israeli authorities, and at other times is incorporated into them. Like state violence, settler violence is organized, institutionalized, well-equipped and implemented in order to achieve a defined strategic goal.
Visualizing the Ethnic Cleansing
Peace Process and Solution
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
One State Solution, Foreign Affairs
Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.
Historian Works on the History
-
Palestine: A Four Thousand Year History - Nur Masalha
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The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948 - Nur Masalha
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A History of Modern Palestine - Ilan Pappe
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The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine - Rashid Khalidi
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The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine - Ilan Pappe
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The 1967 Arab-Israeli War: Origins and Consequences - Avi Shlaim
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The Biggest Prison on Earth: A History of the Occupied Territories - Ilan Pappe
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The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development - Sara Roy
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10 Myths About Israel - Ilan Pappe (summery)
You would be surprised!
You don’t have a clue what you are talking about.
You have no idea what you are talking about!
Israelis are terrorists who take part of the IDF to ensure the occupation of Palestine.
Of course, people like Haredi Jews and other minorities that don‘t take part of the IDF are innocent. But the rest are terrorists and should be treated as such. ✊
The Palestinian armed resistance is completely valid and it isn’t a „few bad apples“.
Haredis are innocent? Their vision for a the state of Israel is revanchist and purely Jewish. Their votes are squarely in a right-wing corner.
The majority of Israelis do want war. They only want the hostages out more.
Not such a thing as bad apple in an occupied population
Hamas and their leaders along with the nut jobs running Israel! All it takes is a few bad apples!
You can talk about bad apples on Palestine side if Israel leave all occupied land and stop Gaza blockade and armed group decide to still attack Israel
Finally! Now arrest the fuckers.
He first needs to come out of Israel to visit a country that recognizes the ICC…
And then the country still needs to actually arrest him. Am I right, Mongolia?
Mongolia is landlocked between Putin’s country and China. Not arresting him was the same as a cop deciding that maybe they shouldn’t arrest a mafia don on their own, while surrounded by the gang.
This is a tad bit different.
He is not Putler though. Israelis may be war criminals as much as Russians are but their strength to influence other states decision is somewhat limited. Apart from the USA of course which for some reason appears to be Israeli puppet.
Bingo
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Now do their enablers.
They couldn’t arrest Bush when he invaded Iraq, they won’t arrest the entire idea of “The leaders of North America and the European Union.”
We can’t arrest Putin, we won’t get Bibi.
Oh for sure. I’m under no illusions about that. But they all deserve the stink of an ICC warrant.
All I want for Christmas is Biden and Blinken in chains.
He’s really fucking up the antisemitic thing for the rest of us. The wolf crier isn’t a monolith and he’s diluting an important communication tool.
Anyone putting netanyahu and hamas in the same category, gets it.
I doubt any country will have the stones to arrest him in the face of US pressure.
At least with America going full mask off as a force of evil, the rest of the world can stop waiting on us to do the right thing.
I think the mask truly went off in 2003. Dubya was an international terrorist in the highest office of the world.
That was really Cheney, his handler.
Don’t worry though, Dems are buddies with the Cheney family now. Those Republican votes for Kamala are going to turn up any day now.
Seriously if anything good can come from this the U.S. needs to stop fucking around with other countries sovereignty and handle it’s own affairs for a few decades.
Look at what happened to Brazil during trump’s presidency. JCPOA. Paris climate accord. The bullshit always overflows.
There is number of countries already said they would.
“The Netherlands, Switzerland, Ireland, Italy, and Spain all said they would meet their commitments and obligations regarding the Rome Statute and International Law.”
Pretty sure if he ever sets foot in South America he’ll be arrested
If Trump plans on doing everything he says he’s going to do he’s going to expend his political capital rather quickly, and likely meet more resistance than he may be able to handle, domestically and internationally.
International war crimes, mass deportations, curtailing the rights of queer people and women, deleting entire government departments, introducing tariffs. Also being in Russia’s pocket, then adding pressure from other big actors like China, Ukraine, and Iran into the mix. That’s a lot to juggle and many of America’s long-standing allies may no longer be willing to fully back the new mask off fascist regime.
Netanyahu may just become a liability.
Does anyone know how the dimwit lawn torch carrying maga bros square hatred of jews with backing of zionists? Do they just never speak of it? I have a hard time pictruring them sitting in a circle in front of a fire drinking bad domestic beer, talking about the nuances of politics or any sort of long term strategy. Maybe they just push it down and ignore it? Or maybe they hate brown and black skin more than white jewish skin?
For the maga leadership its obviously about money, but the voters?? Anyone have experience here?
