Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin said on Tuesday that Finland should have listened more to the Baltics when it came to Russia, adding that Finland's NATO accession is bound to lead to closer relations.
The past 30 or so years has been slow movement towards NATO so that if shit ever hit the fan, Finland could join pretty much immediately. This in conjuction with building self defense capabilities that would make an invasion - specifically by the Russian army - incredibly expensive.
In the end, the decisions to not join NATO and then to join were both done on national security grounds, and not for some sort of ideological stance. Finland’s just shedding the remaining bits of finlandization now.
So far Finland was someyhing like a neutral intermediary between Russia and NATO. It was pretty good for them, diplomats often met there for negotiations, and they could trade with both sides. Now they are throwing all that away in favor of confrontation.
How can there be security by joining an organization which openly treats Russia as an enemy? Finland and Russia share a border, so there will be more danger of conflict.
Starting a land war in Europe is going to make Europe treat you like a threat.
Then please explain NATO invasion of Yugoslavia to us.
See Ukraine.
The same Ukraine that’s been trained by NATO to “NATO standard”, supplied by NATO, and all but integrated into NATO already?
Ukraine had an army that was by far the biggest and most experienced, after 8 years of civil war, in Europe. No other NATO country aside from US even comes close. This army is currently losing to a force that Russia deployed which accounts for a small part of Russia’s overall military strength.
The lesson from Ukraine is pretty clearly that it’s a very bad idea for NATO to continue escalating tensions with Russia.
Europe (and by extension our US masters) have been goading Russia into war for 8 years. Then we made a shocked Pikachu face, launched our “in case of war with Russia” propaganda machine (all the silly stuff Russia has been banned from at the start of the war), and now we get to pretend we still have the moral high ground because at least our wars are not in Europe 😎
Get some perspective; war with Russia has been implanted in the media since 2014 and before. In fact, it was a concern as far back as 1945 of all things, when NATO was founded to “counter” an invasion of Europe by the USSR (Which the USSR was never interested in). When that failed, NATO turned to funding fascist paramilitaries which they saved after WW2 to commit acts of terrorism and lower support for communism in Europe.
The “strongest military alliance on the planet” lost a war against some guys with AKs and IEDs in Afghanistan exactly one year ago. NATO would be a joke by now if it werent for nuclear weapons.
I assume your second paragraph refers to the United States’ regime change and inatigation of civil war that happened in 2014. Sadly I still fail to see Europe treating the U.S l. as the threat it is. Instead we are supposed to freeze and starve for Ukrainian fascists.
everyday Ukrainians are dying, regular people like you and me. when you say ‘ukrainian fascists’ I find it really offensive. The russian rockets don’t ask about the political ideology before they blow up innocent civilians.
Concern trolling. Russia is totally open to humanitarian corridors and opened one in Mariupol. The Azov fascists however fired at anyone that tried to leave.
Zelensky, right after the war started, prevented all men of fighting age from leaving the country just in case they might conscript them.
Ukraine made it illegal just recently to accept food from Russia in occupied areas. If you do, you will be considered a collaborator and sentenced to 15 years in prison.
They used to tie people up to lampposts in Kiev and other cities (a form of mob justice for “crimes” such as “stealing”, allegedly) and leave them here while air raids sirens would presumably go off. They probably still do it, I just haven’t seen anything new about it.
In fact Ukraine did not activate the air raid sirens in time while the siege of Kiev was going on, despite receiving warnings from Russia that they would strike. People could not get to shelters in time because the siren would ring just several minutes before the missile struck.
Yes Russia is killing civilians. I’m not gonna pretend war leaves civilians unharmed. But Ukraine is making the situation worse for their own people. Ukraine is using its civilian population as atrocity propaganda. If you want something to be appalled that, this is it.
Neither do Ukrainian artillery shells or anti person mines which are landing on Donetsk, killing civilians. By fascists Im not refering to civilians, but to the soldiers who operate these weapons, and the ones who command them.
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The past 30 or so years has been slow movement towards NATO so that if shit ever hit the fan, Finland could join pretty much immediately. This in conjuction with building self defense capabilities that would make an invasion - specifically by the Russian army - incredibly expensive.
In the end, the decisions to not join NATO and then to join were both done on national security grounds, and not for some sort of ideological stance. Finland’s just shedding the remaining bits of finlandization now.
So far Finland was someyhing like a neutral intermediary between Russia and NATO. It was pretty good for them, diplomats often met there for negotiations, and they could trade with both sides. Now they are throwing all that away in favor of confrontation.
In favor of security.
How can there be security by joining an organization which openly treats Russia as an enemy? Finland and Russia share a border, so there will be more danger of conflict.
Strongest military alliance on the planet.
Starting a land war in Europe is going to make Europe treat you like a threat.
See Ukraine.
Except the opposite has been shown to be the case now that this alliance has been put to test https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/return-industrial-warfare/
Then please explain NATO invasion of Yugoslavia to us.
The same Ukraine that’s been trained by NATO to “NATO standard”, supplied by NATO, and all but integrated into NATO already?
Ukraine had an army that was by far the biggest and most experienced, after 8 years of civil war, in Europe. No other NATO country aside from US even comes close. This army is currently losing to a force that Russia deployed which accounts for a small part of Russia’s overall military strength.
The lesson from Ukraine is pretty clearly that it’s a very bad idea for NATO to continue escalating tensions with Russia.
Couldn’t have said better 👍👍
Europe (and by extension our US masters) have been goading Russia into war for 8 years. Then we made a shocked Pikachu face, launched our “in case of war with Russia” propaganda machine (all the silly stuff Russia has been banned from at the start of the war), and now we get to pretend we still have the moral high ground because at least our wars are not in Europe 😎
Get some perspective; war with Russia has been implanted in the media since 2014 and before. In fact, it was a concern as far back as 1945 of all things, when NATO was founded to “counter” an invasion of Europe by the USSR (Which the USSR was never interested in). When that failed, NATO turned to funding fascist paramilitaries which they saved after WW2 to commit acts of terrorism and lower support for communism in Europe.
The “strongest military alliance on the planet” lost a war against some guys with AKs and IEDs in Afghanistan exactly one year ago. NATO would be a joke by now if it werent for nuclear weapons.
I assume your second paragraph refers to the United States’ regime change and inatigation of civil war that happened in 2014. Sadly I still fail to see Europe treating the U.S l. as the threat it is. Instead we are supposed to freeze and starve for Ukrainian fascists.
everyday Ukrainians are dying, regular people like you and me. when you say ‘ukrainian fascists’ I find it really offensive. The russian rockets don’t ask about the political ideology before they blow up innocent civilians.
Concern trolling. Russia is totally open to humanitarian corridors and opened one in Mariupol. The Azov fascists however fired at anyone that tried to leave.
Zelensky, right after the war started, prevented all men of fighting age from leaving the country just in case they might conscript them.
Ukraine made it illegal just recently to accept food from Russia in occupied areas. If you do, you will be considered a collaborator and sentenced to 15 years in prison.
They used to tie people up to lampposts in Kiev and other cities (a form of mob justice for “crimes” such as “stealing”, allegedly) and leave them here while air raids sirens would presumably go off. They probably still do it, I just haven’t seen anything new about it.
In fact Ukraine did not activate the air raid sirens in time while the siege of Kiev was going on, despite receiving warnings from Russia that they would strike. People could not get to shelters in time because the siren would ring just several minutes before the missile struck.
Yes Russia is killing civilians. I’m not gonna pretend war leaves civilians unharmed. But Ukraine is making the situation worse for their own people. Ukraine is using its civilian population as atrocity propaganda. If you want something to be appalled that, this is it.
Neither do Ukrainian artillery shells or anti person mines which are landing on Donetsk, killing civilians. By fascists Im not refering to civilians, but to the soldiers who operate these weapons, and the ones who command them.
There’s nothing like it in Donets. Stop spreading Putin’s propaganda.
Winter War can tell you something.