Do you understand how hard communications become if you destroy the power grid? How ressuply becomes harder? Not all of the missiles were targeted at civilian structures, from what I am seeing on Telegram at least two or three hits per city had some important infrastructure such energy, military command or communications. Yes, there were civilian infrastructure targets, probably used as fear mongering after the bombing of the bridge, but this is a war, none of the parties involved are free of guilt, but thinking there is no military objective is plain stupid. Why would you spend all this resources to achieve nothing?
Yes, there were civilian infrastructure targets, probably used as fear mongering after the bombing of the bridge
And this is absolutely unacceptable and reprehensible. It doesn’t matter if Russia does it, if Ukraine does it, if the US does it, if Israel does it, if Al-Qaeda does it, or if the unabomber does it. I don’t care about what the political or military goals are, or if this is done in retaliation to an attack. Any strategy that targets civilians is complete and utter bullshit.
Okay, let’s start by punishing the wrong doers in chronological order then, the US is going to have a bad time with all the economic sanctions that will be applied to them for the tens of thousands of war crimes they have commited.
Applying economic sanctions will hurt the common people much more than those in power. Let’s imagine for a moment that you and I do have enough power to choose what happens. Why would we choose to harm the people who are virtually powerless, continuing the trend that those currently in power love to follow? Justice should be applied selectively and proportionally to the people in power that actively fuel and manage the conflict. Not to the people who happened to be born in a place and tried to live their lives.
I agree, death penalty to the bourgeoisie sounds like a more charming alternative, the whole damn congress of the Usonian Empire is going to get wrecked, lol.
The reality is that all wars end up hurting the civilian population. The only way to avoid that is to stop the wars. Unfortunately, the west is determined to fight this proxy war to the last Ukrainian, and Russia sees this war as existential.
It is, but we live in a world where might makes right. Unless different countries learn to respect each others boundaries, and work towards solutions that are mutually beneficial, we’re doing to keep seeing more of this going forward.
Yes, and it is quite sad. The ability and will to exercise violence is one of the most fundamental forms of power. Hopefully we can solve this one day. Even the more elaborate attempts to do so today - such as nuclear deterrence - uses the threat of violence to prevent violence.
And by that you imply that Russia should leave Ukrainian territory (including Crimea) and start paying retributions for the damage the war caused, right? RIGHT?!
I imply that Russia will not leave Ukraine and that the west is not able to force Russia to leave Ukraine. Russia will win this war, and the only question is how many people will die to make that happen. Moralizing solves nothing.
Are you some kinda doctor strange and can go into the future to see all the possibilities to state such things with clear certainty?
No, I just happen to have basic understanding of how economics and logistics work. But don’t take it from me, a “Russian propagandist”, here’s what western media is saying on the subject
welp, you sure know lots of economics, logistics and other stuff sloshing in your skull to have laser focus on a single outcome of an event. I guess that unprecedented god-like knowledge justifies insulting everyone who questions your position. You sure know everything, so you probably know how this interaction ends as well, why bother replying to such utterly ignorant people?
And Ukraine targeting civilians in the donbass republics for 8 fucking years isn’t? Luhansk has an entire memorial site dedicated to the children and infants killed by Ukraine and their Nazi paramilitaries. Why haven’t you been calling out Ukraine for war crimes for the past 8 years? But as soon as Russia steps in and stops the endless shelling of schools and markets they’re the bad guys.
The war crime there is Ukraine purposefully putting military equipment there. According to international law, as well as the UN speaking on this specifically, Russia has every right to do that once they start putting their weapons there.
Where is there proof that human shields weren’t used? Ukraine has a documented history of using human shields and placing military targets in civilians areas, which itself is a war crime I might add. Where is the proof Ukraine did not commit this crime this time around?
My impression is that there is evidence that Ukranian forces had sheltered in those facilities, which I think is a warcrime as well, while there’s not much evidence of those facilities being used as shelters for pro-russian forces in the previous decade. I’d be happy to be updated with more accurate info.
Tell me about one war commited in the last 50 years were war crimes weren’t commited, tell me about a war crime that had any repercussions in the last 50 years, I can think of a lot of them commited by the West going unpunished. I’m not saying it’s good, only that’s how wars work under the current political system. Yes, what the Russian military is doing right now is something ugly and despiteful, but it is a really good military tactic. They are destroying important infrastructure at a time when winter looms nearer and nearer and energy is a tremendous issue in Europe, generating disorganisation in the chain of command through the whole country, general chaos, disruption of communication, and psychological warfare. I’m not writing about ethics here, but your comment and most of what I’ve seen on Reddit seem to think this is some silly nilly willy attack with no logical warfare thought put into it, while it’s not, precisely at this moment of the war Russia would not attack so far West without some tactical gain.
Do you understand how hard communications become if you destroy the power grid? How ressuply becomes harder? Not all of the missiles were targeted at civilian structures, from what I am seeing on Telegram at least two or three hits per city had some important infrastructure such energy, military command or communications. Yes, there were civilian infrastructure targets, probably used as fear mongering after the bombing of the bridge, but this is a war, none of the parties involved are free of guilt, but thinking there is no military objective is plain stupid. Why would you spend all this resources to achieve nothing?
And this is absolutely unacceptable and reprehensible. It doesn’t matter if Russia does it, if Ukraine does it, if the US does it, if Israel does it, if Al-Qaeda does it, or if the unabomber does it. I don’t care about what the political or military goals are, or if this is done in retaliation to an attack. Any strategy that targets civilians is complete and utter bullshit.
Okay, let’s start by punishing the wrong doers in chronological order then, the US is going to have a bad time with all the economic sanctions that will be applied to them for the tens of thousands of war crimes they have commited.
Applying economic sanctions will hurt the common people much more than those in power. Let’s imagine for a moment that you and I do have enough power to choose what happens. Why would we choose to harm the people who are virtually powerless, continuing the trend that those currently in power love to follow? Justice should be applied selectively and proportionally to the people in power that actively fuel and manage the conflict. Not to the people who happened to be born in a place and tried to live their lives.
I agree, death penalty to the bourgeoisie sounds like a more charming alternative, the whole damn congress of the Usonian Empire is going to get wrecked, lol.
The reality is that all wars end up hurting the civilian population. The only way to avoid that is to stop the wars. Unfortunately, the west is determined to fight this proxy war to the last Ukrainian, and Russia sees this war as existential.
I don’t disagree, but I stand by what I said. Targeting civilians is unacceptable, regardless of perceived or actual existential threats.
It is, but we live in a world where might makes right. Unless different countries learn to respect each others boundaries, and work towards solutions that are mutually beneficial, we’re doing to keep seeing more of this going forward.
Yes, and it is quite sad. The ability and will to exercise violence is one of the most fundamental forms of power. Hopefully we can solve this one day. Even the more elaborate attempts to do so today - such as nuclear deterrence - uses the threat of violence to prevent violence.
Yeah, completely agree. If we don’t destroy ourselves we need to find ways to work cooperatively instead of turning everything into a zero sum game.
And by that you imply that Russia should leave Ukrainian territory (including Crimea) and start paying retributions for the damage the war caused, right? RIGHT?!
I imply that Russia will not leave Ukraine and that the west is not able to force Russia to leave Ukraine. Russia will win this war, and the only question is how many people will die to make that happen. Moralizing solves nothing.
Are you some kinda doctor strange and can go into the future to see all the possibilities to state such things with clear certainty?
**or you’re just a Russian propagandist who’s not allowed to accept any deviation to the fixed point of view?
🤔 I wonder which is more likely
No, I just happen to have basic understanding of how economics and logistics work. But don’t take it from me, a “Russian propagandist”, here’s what western media is saying on the subject
It’s pretty shocking somebody could hold such strong opinions on a subject they’re utterly ignorant of.
welp, you sure know lots of economics, logistics and other stuff sloshing in your skull to have laser focus on a single outcome of an event. I guess that unprecedented god-like knowledge justifies insulting everyone who questions your position. You sure know everything, so you probably know how this interaction ends as well, why bother replying to such utterly ignorant people?
Wow, such an amazing counterpoint you’ve mustered there.
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And Ukraine targeting civilians in the donbass republics for 8 fucking years isn’t? Luhansk has an entire memorial site dedicated to the children and infants killed by Ukraine and their Nazi paramilitaries. Why haven’t you been calling out Ukraine for war crimes for the past 8 years? But as soon as Russia steps in and stops the endless shelling of schools and markets they’re the bad guys.
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The war crime there is Ukraine purposefully putting military equipment there. According to international law, as well as the UN speaking on this specifically, Russia has every right to do that once they start putting their weapons there.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/07/19/zrjy-j19.html
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The fact that Ukrainian regime uses civilians as meat shields is well documented https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/08/ukraine-ukrainian-fighting-tactics-endanger-civilians/
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Where is there proof that human shields weren’t used? Ukraine has a documented history of using human shields and placing military targets in civilians areas, which itself is a war crime I might add. Where is the proof Ukraine did not commit this crime this time around?
My impression is that there is evidence that Ukranian forces had sheltered in those facilities, which I think is a warcrime as well, while there’s not much evidence of those facilities being used as shelters for pro-russian forces in the previous decade. I’d be happy to be updated with more accurate info.
Tell me about one war commited in the last 50 years were war crimes weren’t commited, tell me about a war crime that had any repercussions in the last 50 years, I can think of a lot of them commited by the West going unpunished. I’m not saying it’s good, only that’s how wars work under the current political system. Yes, what the Russian military is doing right now is something ugly and despiteful, but it is a really good military tactic. They are destroying important infrastructure at a time when winter looms nearer and nearer and energy is a tremendous issue in Europe, generating disorganisation in the chain of command through the whole country, general chaos, disruption of communication, and psychological warfare. I’m not writing about ethics here, but your comment and most of what I’ve seen on Reddit seem to think this is some silly nilly willy attack with no logical warfare thought put into it, while it’s not, precisely at this moment of the war Russia would not attack so far West without some tactical gain.
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