• ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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    3 years ago

    It’s strange that you keep questioning the legitimacy of those governments given that they’re supported by the people of Donbas and are recognized by Minsk agreements which I assume you have not bothered actually reading.

    • pingveno@lemmy.mlOP
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      3 years ago

      The Minsk protocols were violated by both sides before the ink dried. The agreement has been reduced to a joke and asking Ukraine to hold to them while its territorial integrity is violated is a matter of selective enforcement.

      • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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        3 years ago

        That’s utter and complete nonsense. In fact, Germany and France are insisting that Ukraine starts implementing Minsk agreement at this very moment.

        • pingveno@lemmy.mlOP
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          3 years ago

          And I’m sure they would be thrilled if they could do so. Germany especially would find it difficult to impose any sanctions with real teeth due to its dependency on Russian natural gas.

    • Olive@lemmy.ml
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      3 years ago

      It’s strange that you continue to fall for this shit. It’s actually not strange, it’s kind of suspicious, but mostly comical. They could nuke Kiev and I guarantee you’d be on the lemmy post calling it fake news or trying to justify it.

        • ahtoms@lemmy.ml
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          3 years ago

          Bruh… people can be critical of both the US and Russia, the fact you weirdly uncritical of Russia does expose your bias.

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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            3 years ago

            Bruh, US overthrew a democratically elected government in Ukraine, funded and trained literal fascists there, and is now trying to start WW3, but yeah BoTh SiDeS aRe BaD.

            • ahtoms@lemmy.ml
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              3 years ago

              but yeah BoTh SiDeS aRe BaD.

              Learn to read please, if you are going to try and derive what I mean, do it right.

              Bruh, US overthrew a democratically elected government in Ukraine

              This is funny because you can apply the same logic here with Luhansk and Donetsk but you don’t.

              There was substantial opposition to Yanukovych prior to the 2010 election and a pattern of corruption established. Post 2010, Party of Regions literally went after and imprisoned the opposition party leader. From this, you should have at least some skepticism of what that Yanukovych’s represents in this case. It can make for a case that is an attempt to seize complete control of a country and erode its democracy. Mixing this with denying Ukrainian’s people’s support of joining the EU, constant cronyism and corruption and then shooting protesters opposing the government… yeah, ain’t great. Remember, Russia supported this guy, so we can somewhat conclude that Russia benefits from having this guy in place.

              Of course, this is going to start leading to people in the country feeling like their government is no longer representing them and protests will likely ensue.

              funded and trained literal fascists there

              Svoboda and Right Sector? Or are you talking about the current government of Ukraine?

              Sure, ironically if you typically invade a country like what Russia did, you are going to spur some serious nationalism and embolden those elements. However, Ukrainian people, as of the most recent election are not necessarily fond of those elements as you can by them practically losing almost all representation in their government.

              I’m not going to disagree that the US had trained people who are part of the parties previously mentioned and I am not exactly supportive of this as well. However, Russia sending their own military into another country, also training Ukrainians that are supportive of Russia/Russian ethnostate. No one has clean hands in this conflict, but it’s kinda obvious that Russia is the main aggressor here.

              • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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                3 years ago

                This is funny because you can apply the same logic here with Luhansk and Donetsk but you don’t.

                You could only apply the same logic if you completely ignore reality and history. Here’s what Jacobin, a western publication has to say about the events of 2014, so maybe stop trying to rewrite history here https://jacobinmag.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea

                Svoboda and Right Sector? Or are you talking about the current government of Ukraine?

                Current government in Ukraine is full of extremists an has even integrated Azov battalion, who are unapologetic nazis, into their regular military.

                Sure, ironically if you typically invade a country like what Russia did, you are going to spur some serious nationalism and embolden those elements.

                [citation needed]

                I’m not going to disagree that the US had trained people who are part of the parties previously mentioned and I am not exactly supportive of this as well.

                Stop trying to rewrite history. Russia has never been the main aggressor here, and anybody claiming this is either an utter ignoramus or a liar.

                • ahtoms@lemmy.ml
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                  3 years ago

                  Dude, this screams of an attempt to discredit all information regarding the matter. Sure, headlines like this need to be considered, however, the information regarding the matter is not discredited because “OMG WEST POSTS ABOUT THIS”.

                  Russia has been the main aggressor now since the past 7 years according to Western fake news

                  Well lets examine some events here:

                  • Invasion of Crimea
                  • Mock Referendum in Crimea (I’m curious how someone could rationalise those questions)
                  • Sponsoring separatists in Donetsk and Luhansk
                  • Providing military equipment to the separatists
                  • Unmarked soldiers
                  • Downing of MH17
                  • Rocketing Mariupol

                  Considering the points above, yes… Russia has been an aggressor for this period of time :)