The Republican presidential candidate ridiculously claimed that Biden is "trying to hold" Bibi back, as the Israeli prime minister continued to ruthlessly bomb Lebanon and Gaza.

“He’s doing a good job,” Trump saidabout the Israeli leader. “Biden is trying to hold him back, just so you understand, Biden is more superior to the VP. He’s trying to hold him back, and he probably should be doing the opposite, actually. I’m glad that Netanyahu decided to do what he had to do, but it’s moving along pretty good.”

    • mightyfoolish@lemmy.world
      1·
      58 minutes ago

      American politics are unanimous on this issue. Biden complained Obama was being too hard on Neyanyahu. All Obama wanted is for Israel to stop bombing the innocent people in Gaza (and he asked Israel to halt building settlements for 3 months). Biden said that Obama was asking for too much and could risk Israel stop listening to the US. We reached this moment BECAUSE of Biden.

      Trump sees how Washington is congratulating Biden while it’s the liberal college students condemning him. That’s a win-win situation in the mind of Republicans. In Trump’s mind, bombing Palestine is good because Biden is getting away with it. Trump is saying he can do it better but isn’t that what Trump says with everything. Is Trump new to you? Biden set this up.

    • sweetpotato@lemmy.ml
      12·
      42 minutes ago

      Rather unfortunate for you that the folks complaining about dnc being 100% complicit and funding the genocide, have never ever claimed that Trump is the better choice.

      Also I love the genocide in quotes, really says all you need to know

  • Minarble@aussie.zone
    866·
    15 hours ago

    If you are an American voter and you sit this one out or vote 3rd party and Trump gets in you are directly supporting escalation and taking whatever little restraint away that Netanyahu is feeling from the USA.

    Instead of calls for restraint you will have cheerleading from the sidelines.

    • Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world
      1·
      1 hour ago

      I honestly think if you can’t be bothered to vote you need to shut the fuck up, not complain and keep your political opinions to yourself. If you’re not even gonna vote, shut the fuck up. I don’t wanna hear it.

      • sweetpotato@lemmy.ml
        11·
        44 minutes ago

        Pretty unfortunate for you that there’s free speech then huh? Not letting you spew your dnc propaganda undisturbed

  • Chapelgentry@lemmynsfw.comEnglish
    9712·
    16 hours ago

    C’mon enlightened lefties! Come on and tell me how you won’t be voting for genocide and we should follow so the Democrats figure out through losing the election that they should court lefties. Nevermind we get 4 years of, “he’s doing a good job” as long as Democrats learn to denounce genocide.

    C’mon you fucking cowards, get in here and sell me on how Trump winning helps solve your single issue voting on genocide.

    • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
      508·
      16 hours ago

      I’m voting for Harris. She shouldn’t be supporting genocide and neither should you.

      • Chapelgentry@lemmynsfw.comEnglish
        201·
        8 hours ago

        Absolutely no disagreement there. I don’t condone genocide, and think we should do something about it but I’m not foolish enough to think not voting for the lesser of two evils accomplishes this. We are in agreement.

        • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
          89·
          8 hours ago

          Nor am I. Unfortunately, there are plenty of people on lemmy who are so pro-genocide that they cannot abide any criticism of it, no matter how mild. These people immediately assume that anyone who has any misgivings at all about Democrats supporting Netanyahu’s genocide must be a trump supporter.

          I’m looking forward to October 21, when early voting opens in Texas, so I can vote for Harris. That doesn’t mean I must remain silent about genocide.

          • Rhoeri@lemmy.worldEnglish
            94·
            4 hours ago

            No one here is pro-genocide. It’s all in your head as a defense mechanism to use against people that disagree with you.

              • Rhoeri@lemmy.worldEnglish
                31·
                3 hours ago

                Hey bud, genocide denial isn’t genocide support. And while I truly believe genocide is happening, (mods- take note that I said this as I’m certain they’re reporting me for genocide denial) there will always be other people out there who try and define things by their own terms. This doesn’t make them right- but we all know your false equivalence has no filter, or ability to reason.

                If someone says “I don’t have cancer” when they have cancer, that doesn’t make them pro cancer. It’s just makes them in denial.

                In short- saying that it is’t genocide isn’t saying they would support it if it were. And it’s well known that you constantly accuse everyone that calls you out as a genocide supporter. So since we’re handing our advice….

                Maybe don’t do that.

    • Tinidril@midwest.socialEnglish
      1444·
      13 hours ago

      This is ignorant as fuck. First of all, there is no more reliable group of voters in the country than progressives. Not even MAGA members have shown up at polls as reliably for Republicans as the left has for Democrats. Still, the Democratic establishment whines about leftists staying home to excuse their pathetic losses, and morons eat it up.

      Also, even if there were any kind of truth to this narrative, trying to win an election by shaming voters is dumb as fuck. No voter who is as fickle as you think the left is, is going to decide to show up because you shouted insults at them. This isn’t a strategy to win elections, it’s a strategy to excuse losing them.

      It’s not “left” voters saying they will stay home, not in significant numbers. It’s Muslim voters or, more precisely, it’s voters who know the names of the people being systematically slaughtered with US weapons. While I agree that voting Democrat is the best bad option for Palestinians, I can’t get behind shaming someone for not voting to elect someone unrepentantly responsible for blowing up their loved ones. If they can’t stomach voting for Harris, I don’t blame them.

      • DancingBear@midwest.social
        2·
        2 hours ago

        Democrats are losing to a multiple convicted felon con man who can’t form complete sentences

        But they refuse to change anything in their campaign while they attack their own base and try to shame them into voting dem. It’s really pathetic.

        • Tinidril@midwest.socialEnglish
          1·
          11 minutes ago

          Oh, I agree. Every time Hillary pops her head up this is what she does, and Obama is only better because he knows how to be subtle.

          On the other hand, right wing trolls are also driving this message, and being even more obnoxious than Hillary.

          The pattern through all of modern history is one of liberals failing to address rising fascism because socialism is what scares them more. Then the fascists win, the system implodes because fascists are incompetent, maybe a few million people die, then the liberals return to start the cycle over. It’s pathetic that liberals can’t stop repeating this tragedy over and over again.

      • Chapelgentry@lemmynsfw.comEnglish
        173·
        8 hours ago

        Yeah, super ignorant take that purported lefties on Lemmy are playing spoiler under the guise of condemning genocide.

        The post was for astroturfing fucks on Lemmy. Way to miss the point.

        • Tinidril@midwest.socialEnglish
          23·
          7 hours ago

          Read your comment that I responded to. There is no indication whatsoever that you aren’t among the large contingency that actually thinks these freaks are leftists. When you mimic idiotic Democratic establishment talking points, you will get treated like a Democratic establishment idiot.

          Way to fail to make the point.

            • Tinidril@midwest.socialEnglish
              1·
              20 minutes ago

              Dude, it was you who claimed I “missed the point” and explained what your point was. Had you not originally buried your point in sarcasm that was indistinguishable from Democratic establishment douchebagery this might have been a very different conversation.

              Right wing operatives are trying to drive wedges and your playing right into their strategy. Most of the “undecided” rhetoric comes from or is amplified by right wing bots, as does the worst of the establishment scolding. I’m all for calling out the trolls, as long as your not doing their work by not making it clear who your attacking.

              We want the same thing in November, but I don’t think your attitude is helping us get there.

      • davidagain@lemmy.world
        356·
        12 hours ago

        There are a bunch of “leftists” on lemmy arguing till the cows come home that leftists mustn’t vote for the Democrats on the grounds that Kamala Harris is personally responsible for genocide in Gaza, who are able to both-sides any and every criticism of the Republicans. They advocate not voting and voting third parties, anything, really, as long as anyone with a conscience over Gaza excludes themselves from affecting whether Kamala Harris or Donald Trump becomes president. They argue that losing to the right wingers will push them left, but I think it’ll drag them to the right where the votes are, and that if you withhold your vote when the alternative is someone who promised to be dictator on day one (and more recently says he’ll send the military to deal with “the enemy within”, which is apparently left wing folk), your vote isn’t winnable anyway and you’ve excluded yourself from the very effect on voting you claim to be having, but none of that makes any difference to the people calling themselves leftists who want trump to win.

        • Tinidril@midwest.socialEnglish
          4·
          3 hours ago

          I think you nailed it with “leftists”. The comment I responded to didn’t bother with the quotes.

          The whole point of this obvious right wing psy-op is to drive a wedge between liberals and leftists. When liberals don’t distinguish between “leftists” and leftists, it plays right into their hands.

          These operatives are running a two pronged attack. They aren’t just impersonating leftists, they also imitate liberals preaching from their high horses like Hillary Clinton on steroids. Liberals should take care not to do that work for them.

        • DancingBear@midwest.social
          1·
          2 hours ago

          I advocate firmly for my friends and family to vote for Harris. But I can’t support genocide, so my ballot will not include a vote for president.

        • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
          418·
          8 hours ago

          When the election is over, what will you call people who don’t want the US to support genocide when you can’t call them all trumpers?

          • davidagain@lemmy.world
            91·
            5 hours ago

            The logical error implicit in your question is that allowing Donald “finish them” Trump to win is obviously worse for Gaza, so I don’t believe for a minute that anyone calling for folks to exclude themselves from affecting whether the country gets Trump or Harris in the White House actually cares about Gaza at all, even a little bit.

            • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
              15·
              5 hours ago

              The logical error implicit in your question is that allowing Donald “finish them” Trump to win is obviously worse for Gaza

              I’m still voting for Harris, and have never advocated for not voting, voting third party, or voting for trump. You’ve ignored this multiple times because it’s contrary to your “anti-genocide = pro-trump” narrative.

              • davidagain@lemmy.world
                21·
                5 hours ago

                That’s not my narrative AT ALL. My narrative is that the people who argue that caring about Gaza or caring about left wing issues means you should exclude yourself from deciding between Kamala Harris and Donald “best King of Israel” Trump aren’t really left wing or pro Gaza people at all, they’re trumpers trying to suppress left wing votes. Tindiril seemed not to realise they exist, but the rest of the thread has them out in spades. I’ve never taken issue with people hating what’s going on in Gaza and spreading to Lebanon, I just keep pointing out that allowing Trump back in the White House will be worse for Gaza and worse for anything left wing.

                • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  13·
                  5 hours ago

                  My narrative is that people who argue that caring about Gaza of caring about left wing issues means you should exclude yourself from deciding between Kamala Harris and Donald “best King of Israel” Trump are trumpers.

                  You know I’m not one of those people. And yet, since you can’t abide anyone being unhappy about genocide, you keep pretending I am.

            • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
              47·
              6 hours ago

              Get over yourself, find a good-fairh argument to have for once.

              The only thing you consider good faith is support for the wholesale murder of every last Palestinian.

  • N0body@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    901·
    19 hours ago

    it’s quite different from Trump’s bombastic rhetoric: He has repeatedly said that Israel has to “finish the job.” The former president’s Friday comments appear to be an attempt to paint Biden, and by extension, Harris, as being less supportive of Israel than him

    Trump wants genocide escalated and completed on a faster timetable. If you don’t think that includes the West Bank in the long-term plan, you’re being naive.

    Biden is trying to get a ceasefire deal from a madman. Harris needs to win the election and can’t if Israel turns against her. Trump actively wants to commit accelerated genocide on Palestinians.

    Anyone who is pro-Palestinian and is thinking about voting for Trump needs to be aware of the long-term consequences.

    • ReallyActuallyFrankenstein@lemmynsfw.comEnglish
      18·
      9 hours ago

      Anyone who is pro-Palestinian and is thinking about voting for Trump needs to be aware of the long-term consequences.

      *Anyone who is pro-Palestine and is thinking about not voting or voting for anyone other than Harris, just to be clear.

      The foundational lesson of the trolley problem is not about the effects of the two options, it’s that not pulling the lever is a choice too.

      Third-party voters, I know the psychological reaction to being told you “have to” vote for Harris causes you to dig in further, to be more contrarian. I know the feeling. So to be clear, you don’t have to do anything. But we can’t escape the ethical and moral effects of a choice not to mitigate harm. The dominos are lined up, pushing the one that says “Stein” or “No choice” will cause the one that says “Trump” to fall, it’s as simple as that. Our moral culpability doesn’t end at the ballot box, it ends at the end of rational foreseeability.

      The right takes an oversimplified view of reality to avoid confronting complicated truths. Don’t be the same by thinking if we ignore a difficult moral choice, it goes away. Trump is telling you what he plans to do. Stopping him is a moral imperative if you want to save as much life as possible.

    • Saleh@feddit.org
      16·
      7 hours ago

      Biden is not trying to get a ceasefire deal from Netanyahu. If you are a parent and your kid is stabbing people, the way to go about it is not to say “please stop” and then hand them another knife.

      Biden wants this to continue. The rest is rhetoric to make it look different. But every single supposed red line was crossed by Israel. Every time Biden said something bad about Netanyahu, he continued the arms shipments and reiterated how Israel is just defending itself hurr durr.

      Now the US stationed some more soldiers in Israel to create a probable reason to escalate to war with Iran. Harris has reiterated that she stands by the side of Israel.

      Meanwhile US law prohibits sending weapons to countries that hinder US aid, which is evident with Israel. The Biden admin is breaking US law. They could have stopped the weapons deliveries and they could have went on to let the legal system go rampage on the Reps still pushing for it.

      They could have created the political situation to have decided the election in their favor many months ago. But they would rather have Trump take presidency again, than to stop Israel murdering more Arabs.

    • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      144·
      9 hours ago

      And yet, if comments on this site are to be believed, he’s still also getting the, “We refuse to vote Democrat because we’re against the genocide!” crowd (sorry guys, but not voting or voting third party is a vote for Trump. You cannot escape it).

    • geekwithsoul@lemm.eeOPEnglish
      166·
      15 hours ago

      True. I think it’s more about whether Harris can pull in the “genocide bad” folks, or loses them to third-party protest votes. Of course if any of those folks were paying attention to the crap coming out of Trump’s mouth, they’d understand how much worse Trump will be. I had folks (hexbear and .ml of course) on a different post telling me that not only would Harris and Trump be the same on this, but that Harris would actually be worse. And of course they’re willfully ignoring how bad Trump would be on everything else.

      I have a suspicion that part of what’s pushing Harris’ campaign strategy right now to focus on courting more “centrists” is that they know whatever she did to appeal to the left that’s not voting for her would never be enough to satisfy them. Far easier to court the middle with straightforward messaging than to appeal to a voting bloc that is already determined to hate anyone that’s not as chaotic as they are.

      • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
        920·
        15 hours ago

        True. I think it’s more about whether Harris can pull in the “genocide bad” folks

        I haven’t seen her try. Have you?

        • geekwithsoul@lemm.eeOPEnglish
          125·
          14 hours ago

          Thanks for proving my point.

          Not that you’ll read it, but I think this might help explain:

          https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/09/kamala-harris-israel-policy-palestine-gaza-war.html

          Perhaps Harris’ loudest statement, however, was prefaced by her absence. Shortly after getting the nod from Biden in July, Harris snubbed Netanyahu, skipping his speech to Congress. (She spoke to a Black sorority, instead.) The next day, she met privately with him—later describing their talk as “frank and productive,” words that your boss might use after a performance review goes poorly.

          The reaction to her remarks was underwhelming at the time, but the remarks themselves were extraordinary. “We cannot allow ourselves to become numb to the suffering” of Palestinians in Gaza, “and I will not be silent,” she told reporters and cameras. “Israel has a right to defend itself—but how it does so matters.” It was as close as a sitting vice president could possibly come to reading Netanyahu for filth without creating a diplomatic crisis.

          • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
            715·
            14 hours ago

            Her messaging regarding unconditional support for the genocide all centrists love is more convincing than subtle hints that slate has to speculate about.

            • geekwithsoul@lemm.eeOPEnglish
              135·
              14 hours ago

              A nuanced take as always /s

              Did you even get to the end of the article or did you just read the headline?

              Harris has very little room to maneuver, however, without losing a huge part of her base and the party machinery that are still deeply attached to Israel. There is only so much a candidate and sitting vice president can do or say to break with the position held by her staunchly Zionist president, a Democratic establishment beholden to the pro-Israel lobby and AIPAC, and a broad swath of her liberal base that strongly supports Israel and its war. If she’s serious about getting elected, she has to withhold the kind of unambiguous statement—or action—that pro-Palestine activists demand. So she’s reduced to tone of voice, oblique gestures, a message hidden between the lines.

              • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
                613·
                14 hours ago

                Did you even get to the end of the article or did you just read the headline?

                I read the article. I don’t buy excuses and apologia when we’re talking about literal genocide. I also regard with earned disgust anyone who makes such excuses.

                The whole “she absolutely can’t differ from Biden in any way except for these subtle hints we speculate about” thing is garbage. She’s not the secretary of state. She’s not running everything behind the scenes like Dick Cheney, though she seems to have garnered his approval, and it speaks volumes that centrists were so goddamned happy about his endorsement. In any event, she is free to differ on foreign policy and chooses not to.

                I’m still voting for her. I’m going to be at the polls this coming Monday, which is when early voting opens here in Texas. I have every right to criticize her for supporting Netanyahu’s genocide, even if Netanyahu’s apologists want me to buy that she has shown any opposition whatsoever to the only policy centrists seriously hold.

                • geekwithsoul@lemm.eeOPEnglish
                  105·
                  13 hours ago

                  Okay, let’s play this out. What exactly do you want her to say? Specifically. Because it’s not like as VP she can do anything about it directly. So this is just going to be a statement, right?

                  Let’s say as part of that statement, she says Israel should get no more aid. That would be the crux of it, correct? And Biden then has to come out and say, that’s not happening while I’m President. Factions within the Democrats withdraw funding and support from her campaign. And the Iranians start actually drooling about being able to basically act unopposed. Hezbollah gets some shiny new missiles to kill more civilians. Centrists withdraw support from Harris and more than likely sit out the election, though a few may move over to Trump. November 6 rolls around and Trump wins, the region is even more of a shitshow than it is now, and just as important, Palestinians will still be dying. And under Trump it will get much, much worse.

                  Or…she tries to thread a very small needle, gets elected, and can the come to the bargaining table as the newly sworn-in President. She still has to juggle a bunch of different interests, but as President she has the power to do more than make statements and has quite a bit of latitude when it comes to foreign policy. Harris wouldn’t have been my top choice, or even in my top 5, but I can honestly say I can’t believe she won’t make saving Palestinian lives a priority, unlike Biden. But she can’t do it as a candidate.

  • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
    50·
    19 hours ago

    From a purely strategic perspective, is this wise of Trump?

    My impression is that even many American Jewish people don’t like Netanyahu. And he doesn’t need to remind anti-Harris protest voters that he’s even more anti Palestine. Many MAGA diehards don’t even like Netanyahu.

    Like… who is he appealing to? Older Republicans, I guess, who remember Israel’s early days?

  • reddit_sux@lemmy.world
    138·
    13 hours ago

    People not voting bcoz of Gaza are fools bcoz that genocide will continue immatter of who is in the white house. US support will continue.

    Biden’s actions have shown there is no restraints, so has Harris’s. I am not believing anything Trump is saying.

    • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      102·
      9 hours ago

      People not voting bcoz [sic] of Gaza are fools bcoz [sic] that genocide will continue immatter [sic] of who is in the white house. US support will continue.

      Eh… maybe.

      Biden’s actions have shown there is no restraints, so has Harris’s. I am not believing anything Trump is saying.

      Fucking what? Why would you not believe Trump when he says that he thinks Biden is too tough on Netanyahu. Please, tell me how you think it would make sense to lie about that. I’m actually kind of curious about the logic here.

      You think Trump is lying? You think he believes that Biden hasn’t been hard enough on Netanyahu, but he lied about it for… reasons?

      What goes on in your head?

  • ceenote@lemmy.world
    301·
    19 hours ago

    Honestly, is there anyone alive today with more blood on their hands than Benjamin Netanyahu?

    • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
      2·
      8 hours ago

      Bush is up there but if Netanyahu hasn’t already passed him, he definitely will as the genocide continues.

    • Stovetop@lemmy.world
      34·
      18 hours ago

      It’s sad to say, but yes. Gaza is a horrific tragedy, but it is an admittedly small corner of the world.

      The Palestinian health ministry has reported 40,000+ Palestinian dead. Meanwhile, George W. Bush is responsible for the deaths of over a million Iraqis following his completely unnecessary invasion of Iraq. He’s still kicking, probably using some of that blood on his hands for the painting he does now.

      Putin is also pulling comparable numbers as Bibi in Ukraine, though that conflict has been going on for a little bit longer than the one in Gaza. But that’s also not counting how many of his own men he sent to their deaths, which is estimated to be over 100,000.

      Henry Kissinger would also be on this list but thankfully it’s been almost a year since his long-awaited demise.

      And that’s really only looking at conflict. Not factoring in others who are responsible for large-scale humanitarian crises that may end up killing many more people just from disease or starvation.

      • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
        131·
        16 hours ago

        The Palestinian health ministry has reported 40,000+ Palestinian dead.

        That only counts people who get found, obviously it doesn’t count the tens of thousands who are dead or dying under the rubbel. The real number is probably an order of magnitude higher.

      • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
        101·
        16 hours ago

        Not to detract from your point, but the real number of deaths in Gaza is estimated to be between 100-200 thousand.

        • Stovetop@lemmy.world
          4·
          9 hours ago

          Fair, and that’s also where things get muddy when trying to factor in the humanitarian crisis aspect into it all. Number of dead due to starvation, lack of medical care, preventable disease, and so on is impossibly hard to get an accurate number of.

          I just feel like this is a story we’re going to keep hearing over and over, forever. Darfur yesterday, Gaza today, who is tomorrow?

    • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
      153·
      15 hours ago

      Trump’s response to covid. Putin’s entire career. Kim Jong Un’s slow starvation of his entire fucking nation. But Netanyahu is up there and we should stop letting him write our foreign policy.

        • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
          63·
          15 hours ago

          Yeah, him too. But I’m not gonna minimize the perpetrator of an ongoing genocide either. Netanyahu is a piece of shit and we shouldn’t be supporting his genocide. No matter how much centrists want to. We should cease selling him weapons right now. Centrists might not get everything they want for the first time ever, but they can vote blue no matter who.

  • DarkCloud@lemmy.world
    21·
    19 hours ago

    If you’re exceptionally fascist, Trump will allot you extra praise. This is earnest as well - it’s because he was mentored by a fascist type personality in Roy Cohn - and raised by a ruthless racist Capitalist in the form of his father who refused to rent his properties to black people (putting a ‘c’ on their applications to indicate they were people of color).