• pingveno@lemmy.ml
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    2 years ago

    Did you read that article? It says the exact opposite of what you are claiming. Conditions may have changed some, but the Chinese government is still oppressive towards the Uyghur minority. And they made it very clear that they could tell Chinese officials were censoring locals.

    Also, if there were atrocities happening in Xinjiang that western media claims are happening we’d see a huge flood of refugees, like 2.2 million refugees we see from Afghanistan where actual crimes against humanity have been committed by your country.

    This would seem to explain it. China is preventing them from leaving, and when they do manage to then China pressures other countries to return them. No such pressure existed in Afghanistan.

    These are well documented atrocities as opposed to imagined ones.

    They’re well documented because the US is an open society with a free press and organizations that concern themselves with the overuse of prisons. Government agents stalking journalists reporting on the prison system would be considered a scandal, not the norm.

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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      2 years ago

      Did you read that article? It says the exact opposite of what you are claiming. Conditions may have changed some, but the Chinese government is still oppressive towards the Uyghur minority.

      It actually doesn’t say the exact opposite. When you read the actual facts that the journalist observes, as opposed to the spin, they do not find any of the oppression they’re looking for.

      And they made it very clear that they could tell Chinese officials were censoring locals.

      No, they claimed that without providing any actual evidence for that happening. It’s like you don’t understand how to separate facts from opinions.

      This would seem to explain it. China is preventing them from leaving, and when they do manage to then China pressures other countries to return them. No such pressure existed in Afghanistan.

      Refugees would be going to all the neighbouring countries across the border from Xinjiang. Only a tiny minority of refugees goes to US from Afghanistan. They flood to the countries around Afghanistan.

      They’re well documented because the US is an open society with a free press and organizations that concern themselves with the overuse of prisons. Government agents stalking journalists reporting on the prison system would be considered a scandal, not the norm.

      LMFAO imagine genuinely believing that.

      • pingveno@lemmy.ml
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        2 years ago

        When you read the actual facts that the journalist observes, as opposed to the spin, they do not find any of the oppression they’re looking for.

        No, they claimed that without providing any actual evidence for that happening. It’s like you don’t understand how to separate facts from opinions.

        They noticed someone talking freely the first time, then the person being talked to by the men trailing the journalists, then the person they spoke to made a zipping motion across their mouth. It’s not spin, it’s being perceptive.

        Refugees would be going to all the neighbouring countries across the border from Xinjiang.

        Their movements are tightly monitored and controlled. They are not allowed to travel. Afghans were always able to travel, even if some travel could be dangerous.

        LMFAO imagine genuinely believing that.

        Are you incapable of thinking a single positive thing about US society? Yes, we have a free press, and there has been plenty of criticism and coverage of the criminal justice system.

        • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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          2 years ago

          They noticed someone talking freely the first time, then the person being talked to by the men trailing the journalists, then the person they spoke to made a zipping motion across their mouth. It’s not spin, it’s being perceptive.

          Again, the narrative that the intrepid western journalists are uncovering crimes fits your existing biases, and that’s what makes it such an easy sell for you.

          You’re willing to ignore all the objective evidence such as lack of any of these massive prison facilities, lack of refugees, and so on in favor of these subjective observations which you think are “perceptive”.

          Their movements are tightly monitored and controlled. They are not allowed to travel. Afghans were always able to travel, even if some travel could be dangerous.

          If you don’t understand why that statement is absurd, I encourage you to think about it a bit about what you said there. Also, explain what reason China would have to prevent these people from leaving. If these people are dissidents that would cause trouble, then China would be glad to get rid of them. None of what you say makes any logical sense.

          Are you incapable of thinking a single positive thing about US society? Yes, we have a free press, and there has been plenty of criticism and coverage of the criminal justice system.

          I’m certainly incapable of doing mental gymnastics where US is a free and open society that has free press. One has to be utterly ignorant to say such things. Entire books have been written showing this to be false.

          • pingveno@lemmy.ml
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            2 years ago

            subjective observations

            Okay, then how are you explaining the shopkeeper making a zipped lips motion? That doesn’t seem so subjective.

            Also, explain what reason China would have to prevent these people from leaving.

            China has leaned on other governments to return asylum seeking Uyghurs. The article I linked to mentions several cases.

            Entire books have been written showing this to be false.

            Oh? Am I going to get yet another link to Manufacturing Consent, work of infallible leftist god Noam Chomsky? Oh wait, there are literally thousands of articles bemoaning the school to prison pipeline, 90’s crime bill, three strikes laws, systemic racism, and hunger where there should be abundance. These are widely discussed in US politics.

            • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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              2 years ago

              Okay, then how are you explaining the shopkeeper making a zipped lips motion? That doesn’t seem so subjective.

              Again, that’s an anecdote reported by a person with a particular agenda. You can go on youtube and find tons of videos of people living in Xinjiang, including westerners, and they go around and interact with people. Here’s an example.

              China has leaned on other governments to return asylum seeking Uyghurs. The article I linked to mentions several cases.

              You mean US and Saudi trained terrorists?

              Oh? Am I going to get yet another link to Manufacturing Consent, work of infallible leftist god Noam Chomsky? Oh wait, there are literally thousands of articles bemoaning the school to prison pipeline, 90’s crime bill, three strikes laws, systemic racism, and hunger where there should be abundance. These are widely discussed in US politics.

              Weird how none of that talking actually translates into any actual action. It’s as if these kinds of articles are designed for the specific purpose of having a veneer of discussion so that people like you can point to them and claim there’s freedom of speech.

              Free speech is a completely meaningless term unless that speech can be translated into action. Whenever there is a threat of actual action then you end up like MLK and Fred Hampton. Chapter 10 in this book documents lots of examples of political repression in US using intimidation and violence.

              • pingveno@lemmy.ml
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                2 years ago

                You mean US and Saudi trained terrorists?

                No, I mean people fleeing China and seeking asylum.

                Here’s an example.

                Good thing that guy doesn’t have any bias or anything. Not like he didn’t just wander right by the SWAT guy “having a nice chat”. Nothing could possibly be intimidating about a police officer in a SWAT jacket dropping by your store. No siree.

                Weird how none of that talking actually translates into any actual action.

                There’s action on criminal justice reform. It mostly is on the state level at the moment.

                Chapter 10 in this book documents lots of examples of political repression in US using intimidation and violence.

                Yup, the US doesn’t have a pure history or present. But it doesn’t approach China’s open and systematic repression of dissent, and you’re well into whataboutism territory at this point.

                • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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                  2 years ago

                  No, I mean people fleeing China and seeking asylum.

                  Right, the terrorists that US and Saudis have been funding to do terrorist attacks in China. These are your friends seeking asylum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Juma_Tayir

                  Good thing that guy doesn’t have any bias or anything. Not like he didn’t just wander right by the SWAT guy “having a nice chat”. Nothing could possibly be intimidating about a police officer in a SWAT jacket dropping by your store. No siree.

                  Did you as an American just criticize China for having police that’s too militarized? Amazing levels of cognitive dissonance here. 😂

                  Yup, the US doesn’t have a pure history or present. But it doesn’t approach China’s open and systematic repression of dissent, and you’re well into whataboutism territory at this point.

                  The reason you think that is because your propagandist tell this. You have zero actual knowledge of China. It’s a country you’ve never been to, you don’t know people living there, only things you know about this country about this country come the media you consume. The same media that constantly lies about everything.

                  And don’t deflect with your whataboutism bullshit from the fact that you ignore the same kind of crimes happening in your own country that you accuse China off. These are far better documented and have far more evidence for them than the straws you’re grasping at. If you actually cared about these things then you’d be denouncing your own country. Instead, you’re just looking for ways to justify your chauvinism.

                  In objective terms your country is responsible for far worse systemic repression than anything observed in China. The enormous prison population alone is a clear example of that. US imprisons far more people per capita than China does. And if we include all the horrors your nightmarish empire is responsible for around the world then you have no leg to stand on accusing any other country.

                  People in China see their lives improve each and every decade, while people in US are having their lives destroyed by the oligarchs. If you cared about actual tangible freedoms, then you’d care about freedom to have housing, healthcare, education, and jobs. Freedom to live a life free from want.

                  • pingveno@lemmy.ml
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                    2 years ago

                    These are your friends seeking asylum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Juma_Tayir

                    Please do explain to me how those 200 people in Thailand have anything to do with Juma Tayir. Or is collective punishment in vogue again?

                    Did you as an American just criticize China for having police that’s too militarized? Amazing levels of cognitive dissonance here. 😂

                    I’ve criticized the American police as being too militarized and unaccountable. Doesn’t mean that I can’t criticize China for using its police to intimidate its people.

                    If you actually cared about these things then you’d be denouncing your own country.

                    I criticize my country. I want it to improve. I’ve never, ever seen you criticize China. Not once.