This whole meme is based on a lie; people on a keto diet get harassed all the time.
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That’s it. Had a buddy do it. Would order Burger, no bun. Obviously, we made a joke out of it. And that’s it. Nobody cares.
Guilty conscience meat eaters use concern trolling to salvage their own self-esteem. In my experience, those expressions of worry are back handed compliments at best. They never come from people who are in better shape than I am and they don’t come from people with better nutrition either.
Wow you really nailed it.
I lost 58kg and the only things I ever heard was concern trolling from my friends that resented me for doing what they could not.
Never heard word one about my body while I was unhealthy and unhappy, and the shitty remarks started as soon as the weight reduction became noticeable.
“Woah slow down, don’t want you to disappear!” “You’ve proven your point! You can eat a donut!” “Why do you want to be miserable and only eat seeds?” “Fuck dude you’re vanishing! Eat a hamburger!” “You think you’re better than everyone now!” “It’s actually really unhealthy to be as lean as you’ve become.” “Don’t like hanging out anymore, you make me think about every molecule I put in my damned mouth!” “You look like a skeleton now.”
And so forth.
Wow those are shitty people. Good on you for losing that weight, as a hefty fellow it’s fucking haaaaard work and you should be proud of the effort you put in!
Thanks for the support!
I made so many changes in my journey. I taught myself to cook and made every meal from scratch ingredients… for 6 months. I’m reminiscing now thinking about how many tortillas I’ve pressed, sauces I’ve made, things I’ve fermented, and hundreds of hours on the cutting board. How many times I ordered a “kid size” pizza or sundae on my “cheat” days lol
I ran (poorly), swam, rode, lifted and burned so many calories. I meditated every day and did monthly therapy to help with the mental stress of the physical and lifestyle changes. That is all time, effort, pain, money, and sacrifice.
Every day without wavering I made a hundred difficult little choices that prioritized my goals vs my desires/old patterns. Food everywhere and people genuinely insulted when I wouldn’t partake with them or in their way. Watching my friends literally not enjoy their meal from their own shame, just because my serving was conspicuously smaller. Dealing with my biology compelling me to eat one way while I was consciously reprogramming myself to eat another way. Massive social pressures from all sides.
I never really even told anybody of my goals or changes. I didn’t make it my personality or a thing. Never spoke of it once or advocated anything to my friends. Only spoke about being slimmer when specifically asked.
That’s why it was so hurtful to undertake such tremendous responsibility for my own personal transformation, and then have people internalize it, make my journey about how them and how they feel shitty when they look at me, then make a snide or sinister comment. Only my best friend of 30 years gave me any positive feedback.
The whole thing was kind of a rough ride. Worth it in the end, but wow it was so much more than just eating less.
Thanks for listening. I really appreciate your comment a lot!
Such and interesting read and I hope you found it worth it in the end…! You’ve verbalised a lot of my experiences with quitting alcohol. It was the hardest thing I’ve done and lost a lot of ‘friends’ along the way. But ended up happier, healthier, and genuinely enjoying life again.
Good for you my friend! Yes it was the same thing when I quit alcohol 8 years ago! Quickly find out that people are happy for you to quit drinking until you actually do it, then it’s like … what you think you’re better than me? Come on have a drink!
Wow this is the truth of the post. Not just that it ia demeaning that vegans get harassed but why it’s counter to the reality of the effort being made.
Good on you, yeah you can’t downplay the fortitude required to make such life altering changes. It’s so easy to slip back into the status quo. That being said for anyone else reading, if you’ve tried, and failed, remember that you got further along than if you never tried at all. Keep at it, don’t beat yourself up, you can do it!
Congrats on the weight loss.
I had to stop at 40Kg because my heart meds went out of balance… and have pretty quickly gained 12Kg since.
Ah that’s interesting and something I hadn’t considered. I wasn’t really on any meds except Nexium at the time. Is your heart medication dose dependent on weight? I genuinely don’t know anything about the conditions or treatment.
What do you credit for the 12kg regaining? Just wondering, my weight still swings about 8kg this way and that but I seem to have generally stabilized in a range.
Is your heart medication dose dependent on weight?
It’s somewhat interesting, because the main heart meds are metabolic blockers (ramipril and bisoprolol, respectively an angiotensin-converting enzime inhibitor, and a beta1-selective blocker that inhibits cAMP phosphorylation), so they can only block certain metabolic paths and once that’s done, they can’t have more effect no matter the dose (they’re basically non-overdoseable).
But… at the same time, I had a diuretic added on (dapagliflozin) as part of a combined diabetes treatment, that used to work fine at the top weight, but at the bottom weight turned out to both reduce blood volume, impacting blood pressure, and lower blood sugar by too much, so that one had to go.
What do you credit for the 12kg regaining?
Reduction in stress (an extreme stress peak is what made me lose most of the weight), along with depression, and general despair due to a double back hernia that left me barely able to walk. I’m slightly better now after some physiotherapy, but still moving way less than before, so it’s anyone’s guess how it will go. It also made me switch to a worse diet, since I can’t stay up long enough to prepare healthier stuff.
Thanks for sharing, I don’t know why you are being downvoted or who is in this thread being a dick.
I’m gonna be honest, I wanted to argue against this, but I can’t deny it. I’m part of a relatively overweight family (actually mostly because of immune system problems that thankfully I didn’t inherit) and all I get from my parents are “You’re looking skinny” or “You’re worrying too much about weight” just because I want to exercise and eat well. Even then, I’m ~20lbs over weight. To be devil’s advocate, I think part of it is that overweight people have struggled with problems of being too hard on themselves before, and so don’t want to you fall into that, but go too far the other way. The conversation of overweight/vegans doesn’t exactly overlap perfectly, but it made me think of it.
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le epic funny 🤣🤣🤣
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Animals are there to be food.
You think animals are there for a fated reason? Like all animals have a destiny? Because your comment relies on this notion.
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Now apply that to something you disagree with and see how you go.
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elscallr
You don’t need to use swear words.
virtually nobody
The ones who felt guilty about it in this context have stopped doing it. You must have felt so smart though!
Virtually nobody who eats meat feels guilty about it
I felt guilty about it and became a vegetarian and, once I leaned about how milk and eggs lead to death and suffering, a vegan. I have been so for 10 years plus now.
Animals are there to be food.
Yes, but only in the same sense that woman are there for the plesure and serving of men. It’s a social construction and is, as it thankfully has with the perception of woman, changing.
If there was a life form that could eat me it would, and I’d have to accept that.
I don’t think so. I think you’d ramble in about how unethical it is to eat a sentient beeing and how cruel this hypothetical lifeform is. Because that’s how we are build. It’s easiest for us to feel empathie towards our own sorry asses.
You can learn to expand your empathie tough. Start here. Watch it completely. No skipping. Then we can talk:
If there was a life form that could eat me it would, and I’d have to accept that.
Ever heard of cannibalism?.. or E. Coli, just get a bit in your blood and it will eat you in no time (aka: sepsis).
Actually every human has some E. Coli in their gut - it’s one of the many flora that inhabit our digestive tracts. And what’s so bad about cannibalism? Those people in the Andes only survived because they ate their dead teammates, and some of them even said they’d do it again because it’s the only thing that prevented them from starvation.
We bred them to be like that tho there were wild versions of chickens. Ever seen a wild turkey? Fuuuuck. Talk about risk if you miss that things taking an eye out. Bovines were easier prey but in the wild would have been protected by bulls, I think?
Okay, let someone murder you and eat you if they are hungry then. Plenty of people go hungry each year, why don’t we eat each other? Or why won’t you capture and eat my dog?
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How do you know if you haven’t tried?
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You have to be truly deranged to compare the rights of lower lifeforms to those of humans.
This, ladies, gentlemen, and nonbinaries in finery, is what fascism looks like. “I’m biologically superior”, “I can do whatever I want with lesser beings”, “the whole world exists to serve me”, “I can create an industrial machine of killing for my pleasure”. That’s called fascism. And we don’t tolerate fascists.
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“I dont have a conscience so I assume no one else does either.”
If there was a life form that could eat me it would, and I’d have to accept that.
So you don’t eat medicines?
If there was a life form that could eat me it would
Yeah, it’s called COVID-19. It wants to use your cell nuclei to grow its children from your body’s energy stores, and it doesn’t mind if it shuts down your respiratory system until you can’t breathe. And there are a hundred deadly diseases like it.
Every time you wash your hands, blow your nose with a tissue, or cover your mouth to cough, you are showing you value life above the supposed right of predators to eat you. And that’s okay. Everything has a right to live and that’s okay.
Maybe it has become worse since all those vegan or vegetarian fast food options became available in stores and restaurants.
When I hear non-vegs talk about living meat-free, the conversation always revolves around these meat substitutes, how unhealthy they are.
It does not come to their mind one can prepare a meal from fresh produce. Yes of course, fast food is unhealthy. On the other hand, I like it.
Are the meat substitutes actually bad, though? Certainly can’t be worse than normal fast food.
Assuming you’re asking about things like impossible and beyond meat. They are generally not “healthy” but one stark difference is they don’t have cholesterol.
Whether something is healthy or not is very contentious in the first place, especially with how much misinformation there is out there.
I just try to read the labels on the replacements I buy, and most of them just have many random vegetables and stuff, with a seemingly good balance in nutrients and so on. Maybe there is stuff I’m missing, but I don’t see much bad that can be in there.
I think the most important thing is to just have a relatively balanced diet.
I’d say that they are as healthy as the burger king meat they are substituting. I wouldn’t eat either but if you are there, picking either is equally bad so whatever.
The unhealthiest part about them is just gonna be that they’re salty, fried and greasy, just like other fast food. It’s just a lump of plant fibres (usually peas or wheat these days, I find) thrown in a frier.
Yeah they are better than fast food, even the fast food is healthier if you sub the meat. But that is a terrible benchmark to use.
Compare these meat substitutes to the humble bean and it’s no contest.
I assure you these people are not eating healthy meals lol, it’s all bad faith because the idea of them not eating meat makes them feel threatened about the size of their peepee.
Mum: Eat your vegetables
Carnists: I’m gonna pretend I didn’t hear that
So you’re telling us you’re vegan.
Typical.
You can literally just read the comments from people who eat meat and see that they are more insufferable than vegans right here in this very thread
Always reassuring when carnists come on here to justify themselves on a vegan community. Honestly wouldn’t be a vegan space without those comments
why are there so many triggered omnis in this thread lmao
The post is on the front page
They don’t like feeling bad for the terrible things they do.
trolling vegans is one of the internet’s greatest past times, please respect my culture.
Murder is so hilarious guys!
see how easy it is ^^^
Seriously, I’m not used to seeing this many comments with so many votes going either way. The post is so harmless.
Scrolling down half i the comments has give me a true headache. Why do you guys feel the need to explain your consumption to vegans? Not like we have not heard your “arguments” a thousand times before.
Oh wait, you arent trying to justify your actions to us but to yourself?
Man the chuds in this thread really proving the OP right
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A whole stick of butter? Like, unfried? Reminds me of the time we had houseguests, opened up the butter dish and found teeth marks.
No one believes it’s the cat, Susan.
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I went to college with a girl who would make butter popsicles - she just stuck popsicle sticks into sticks of butter and froze them, then ate them like popsicles. She didn’t have any kind of special diet, she just liked butter popsicles.
She had the worst skin FWIW.
I’ve done both vegan and keto for over a year at some point during my life and what I will say is that I naturally cover my nutrition bases through preferences and desires, while vegan though I had to hunt down (forgive the pun) b12 and complete proteins combinations a little more diligently to cover my nutrition needs.
Or put differently, I think it’s easier to mess up a vegan diet than a keto one.
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Vegan, on the other hand, excludes plenty of foods that are common sources of essential nutrients and especially protein.
Like what??? Seriously, except for B12 theres nothing a vegan diet doesnt have.
Pistachios are a full protein. Lentils Peas and Veggies make full proteins. What are you on about?I think they mean if you were just to take your usual diet and remove certain items so as to make your diet keto friendly, you might be fine. But if you took a usual meat/dairy/egg diet and just stopped eating those fortified foods (without finding a substitution for those nutrients), you would be worse off.
Okay, i see what you mean. But i also see that that’s a dumb way to think about it? Who changes their diet by just not eating certain foods anymore without incorporating something else.
Some of the most nutritionally complete foods we can eat like spinach and other such veggies are limited (though not excluded) on a keto diet, meanwhile there is no limit to how much of these you can eat as a vegan. But also food isn’t just medicine or energy, it can also be poison, and other than refined junk it’s going to be the animal foods that are some of the deadliest.
I’ll agree with you that foods like wheat and rice are not very nutritious, but also they aren’t likely to be the foods that kill you, and you can easily not eat them. Meanwhile keto is very hard to do without animal foods, for many people it’s very hard to do even with animal foods. Keto doesn’t just require you to exclude a list of foods like you sell it, it has very strict macro requirements which requires monitoring your intake of many of the allowed foods.
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Uhhhh no, keto is actually really bad for u if u don’t need it. Ask any actual doctor or dietician, and they’ll say going vegan is a much healthier choice, and ideally ur making sure u get a well-rounded diet, but keto is bad for you regardless. I literally got laughed at when I asked a dietician at Walter Reed about keto, while my last 3 dieticians/doctors have all either been vegan or were vegan/plant-based for a long time.
Obviously everyone’s needs are different, but the most-recommended diet is pescatarian, because it’s not as difficult to make sure ur well-rounded as vegan, and ur not getting most of the negatives animal products.
Keto literally starves your brain for days at a time, makes u miserable and lethargic, and does nothing to help weight loss beyond simple caloric deficit. It also greatly increases intake of red meat, which is bad for you. I literally went vegan while I was in the Army the same time my barracks-mate went on keto, and he ended up in the hospital at the next PT test while I set a personal best PT score and new company best 2-mile.
I also don’t pay special attention to my diet but have had perfect bloodwork every year since going vegan, and got told to stop taking supplements because I didn’t need them. I always had some kind of deficiency each year prior to going vegan.
This idea that carbs are the enemy is totally false. Most people get too few carbs and too much protein. And too much protein doesn’t actually help, despite popular claims. It just ruins ur liver faster.
The “empty carbs” you’re talking about are non-nutritious junk food, so to say that excluding that makes a diet healthy, but a vegan diet is unhealthy because it’s excluding vitamins is ridiculous. You’re making an apples-to-oranges comparison by just excluding junk food from one diet and pretending that the rest of the diet isn’t bad for you. (it is, most people still eat junk animal products, helloo)
It’s really not hard to eat healthy vegan food if ur comfortable cooking basic foods. I actually had a much easier time finding healthy non pre-packaged vegan food to eat compared to my squadmate trying to find keto food. And if all u eat is prepackaged (people on keto eat the same sorts of unhealthy substitutions vegans do) no diet is gonna be healthy.
A double-double wrapped in lettuce is still a double-double, the lettuce is still empty calories, it’s just water. It just has fewer calories than a bun. So people eat a few less calories with their greasy-ass burger, and don’t eat greasy-ass empty calorie fries, and think that keto is making them lose weight. No, they’re literally just choosing to eat less. That’s what’s making them lose weight. If they had the same level of self-control on any other diet, they’d lose the same amount of weight.
U
U r a clown for thinking that invalidates anything I said.
you managed to write a wall of text, but still use ‘u’ instead of ‘you’ 🤨
Oh no I didn’t use perfect syntax I guess what I said is completely invalid.
Clown.
making sure u get a well-rounded diet
This is the only important part.
Vegan is fine if you’re replacing the stuff you take out, not just skip it. It’s easier now, but when vegan was just gaining traction, the alternatives weren’t as plentyful as they are now.
But just make sure your diet is well balanced.
Potatoes and beans fit nearly all your basic needs. When were potatoes and beans not plentiful? The irish potato famine?
He’s talking about before Sir Walter brought them back, when I were a kid we only had turnips and kale…
Yeah that’s also what I’m getting at with keto.
Keto is just another diet. If you take the effort to go on a diet and improve what u are eating, ofc ur gonna be healthier. But I’ve seen no evidence that for the average person there is any benefit beyond that, and there are many negatives to it.
You have a lot of bad information about keto. It certainly doesn’t make you lethargic or miserable, and definitely doesn’t starve your brain. Quite the opposite… it’s being used therapeutically for Parkinson’s disease One of the studies referenced in that article, found here is summarized this way
“More specifically, the symptoms that improved most after keto dieting were urinary problems, pain and other unpleasant sensations, fatigue, daytime sleepiness, and cognitive impairment. These findings are particularly profound because nonmotor symptoms ultimately represent the most disabling aspect of Parkinson’s disease.”
Regarding energy levels most people report having much more energy, and I suspect your friends issue while in the army doing PT was related to electrolytes. People going on any kind of whole food diet, which keto tends to be, often find they get very little salt in their new diet since they’re not eating processed food. People who work out or are otherwise very active often find they have to be intentional about adding salt to their diet or they will in fact find themselves tired and fatigued. Easy to remedy, and again a typical problem for anyone transitioning from a diet with lots of processed foods to one without.
There’s been a lot more un-biased study of keto diets in recent years and a lot better science. It’s not for everybody, but it’s not intrinsically unhealthy and way better than the traditional high-carb, high-sugar, high-processed food diet.
Also, a keto diet does not specifically include or exclude red meat. That’s an individuals choice, just like with virtually any other diet that includes animal protein.
Quite the opposite… it’s being used therapeutically for Parkinson’s disease
Like I said: unless u need it. I was told about the research being done for Parkinson’s and the original use as a treatment for epilepsy by the same dietician who laughed at it as a diet for [average] people looking to improve their physical health.
Just because a special diet is used therapuetically to treat serious cognitive issues does not mean that there is benefit for the average person.
Also, if you’d even read the link you sent, it was a sample size of 7 and 2 of them died during the 28 day trial period, with seemingly no placebo control. Not the most compelling evidence. It definitely seems promising and deserves more research, but it’s a far cry from “currently being used to therapuetically treat”.
The dietary treatment for these conditions is under the supervision of a doctor, and keto does quite literally starve your brain of carbs for days at a time. Ur brain consumes carbs. By ommitting that from your diet, your brain is starved of essential calories for days at a time. and again if u ask ur doctor, I can almost guarantee they’ll say something along those lines.
And like I said in my first comment, yeah ofc a diet where you’re making a concerted effort to watch what u eat is gonna be at least marginally better than a shitty diet. That doesn’t make keto better than just eating better. It’s not. Show me a single peer-reviewed study that says that for the average person, keto is more beneficial than any other diet of similar effort.
I guarantee you come up with nothing.
bad for u if u
literally
This is where you lost all cred. Not before the lack of carnatine.
And u have no response, the only thing ur able to criticize is my improper writing.
wait, I can eat bacon for every meal and that would be considered a “diet”?
I’m no nutritionist, but I’m reasonably sure that any reasonable diet, whether keto or vegan can be accomplished while maintaining proper nourishment.
The thing is, most people’s diet isn’t even providing full nourishment. There’s usually something that’s missing that people are simply not aware is missing, or they’re getting in such low quantities that it’s unhealthy. IMO, the main problem is a lack of education on the matter. I was taught the food pyramid in grade school. It’s barely relevant, and it was literally the only diet and nourishment education I recieved from my first world primary/highschool education. Unless you are going into health science or nutritionist type college credits, nobody takes the time to learn anything further about it later on. They just eat, and don’t really think about it. I certainly didn’t for a very long time.
Additionally, when I learned about the food pyramid, the examples didn’t really make a lot of sense to me, since at the time I had barely touched any food preparation tasks, nor dealt with food that wasn’t ready to eat already (usually prepared by my parents), and I had no context for what a “grain” really was, or why bread was considered a “grain” in the pyramid. I was stupid. In many ways, I still am. Yet, later in life, I don’t know of anyone who is running their meal plan through a professional nutritionist before making the food. I don’t know of anyone who, even if they have a meal plan, even knows a nutritionist who can consult on whether the good that they eat will provide the nutrition that they actually need.
The general population seems to put most of their trust in food makers, the corporations that make ready to eat food, to have accounted for their nutritional needs. Places like fast food restaurants, normal restaurants and those that make recipes, and most of their interest is in making food you’ll enjoy, more than food that will actually provide the nutrition you need.
On top of that, even most doctors won’t, by default, order tests to ensure all of your nutritional needs are met, and unless you have a symptom resulting in a significant deficiency of something, you would never know if you’re behind or not getting enough of something. I can hear the comments now, “but if they’re not being affected, why does it matter?” … The thing is, they are being affected, just not significantly enough for them to be able to draw a correlation or even really complain about it.
So at the end of the day, we’re probably all malnourished in some way, or at least, there’s a nontrivial amount of people who are unaware that they’re malnourished, which isn’t being caught, and nobody has the knowledge or understanding to know it’s even happening. The education on nourishment is so lackluster that is easily forgotten by most and instead we learn about factorials and trigonometry which most people never use past highschool.
I’m summary, more people than you would expect are likely unaware that they’re malnourished, and the education system would rather teach you maths you’ll never use than ensure you can feed yourself properly. The whole thing is fucked, and it’s ironic when people lecture or question anyone about their nourishment needs, given how little any average person has been taught about proper nourishment. Everything is fucked and everybody sucks.
