Remember when you had the 2nd International, huge marxist parties like the SPD in Germany, all saying they would never support an imperialist war and were true marxists, and then when WW1 began they all sold out and supported the war? Good times. Very few, like Vladimir Lenin, Rosa Luxembourg and Eugene Debs, remained true to marxism and opposed the war. Well i think a similar situation is happening now with the SMO in Ukraine.
From “democratic socialists” to MLs to maoists to anarchists, they all said they would never support US imperialism, they would never support a new Iraq WMD lie. And yet, when the SMO began and the west started demonizing Russia and beating the drums of war, most of these ostensibly “leftist” figures, especially western figures, sold out and supported the antirussian histeria. From BreadTube to YoungTurks to maoists like Marxist Paul to anarchists, they all sold out. Even some principled MLs like Second Thought and Hakim have shied away from condemning this war histeria and supporting Russia. I think this will be the collapse of the 2nd International of our era, the new divide between true antiimperialists and sellouts.
What are your thoughts?
I agree on most points here. When push comes to shove you see people’s true colors. Now we have a better idea of who the principled leftists are and who have been drinking the kool-aid.
But I think Hakim and Second thought have avoided discussing the SMO because they tend to focus more on Marxist education, and are primarily trying to get a platform for themselves to reach a wider audience.
If you’ve ever tried discussing the Ukraine situation with a lib they will immediately shut you out and refuse to listen, since its such a current and actively propagandized issue. I have no doubt that once its over and some time has passed, and the curtain falls, we’ll see them discuss it much more openly.
they will immediately shut you out and refuse to listen, since its such a current and actively propagandized issue. I have no doubt that once its over and some time has passed, and the curtain falls, we’ll see them discuss it much more openly.
Oh boy! I just love dealing with that shit AFTER it’s too late to stop it. Then all the libs will be like “I never supported the war, I supported the Ukrainians. Sloba Zucchini!”
The worst is when you attempt to talk about any sort of politics and the conversation always winds up in the Ukraine, regardless of what you try to discuss. Its like they’ve been programmed to spread their nonsense on top of blindly believing it.
Sigh…so true. At this point we might as well refer to them as Missionaries of Empire.
The US lied about every military operation since WWII (and it even lied about that), but they think this time it’s different.
Also keep in mind that YouTube will outright ban your channel and delete your videos if you question the narrative too much. It’s a fine line for channels that are focusing on ML education. Ones that make anti-Russia videos can pound sand though.
It’s a bit surprising that channels like The New Atlas are still on YouTube, but I guess they demonetize and shadowban (more or less) these channels instead
I think even Second Thought has been shadowbanned. The algorithms of these platforms are blatant. If you look up anti-capitalist/left leaning content you will get suggestions for far right content. Twitter kept sending me Tim Pool tweets, despite the fact that I have never engaged in any remotely right leaning content.
Probably, especially after his “the CIA is a terrorist organization” video (which apparently got him a personal visit)
Luckily, I don’t really notice the algorithms too much since I never really use YouTube/Twitter/etc. directly
The CIA is the most successful terrorist organization in history.
It’s certainly in the top three, along with NATO and the Amerikan army
And that’s why we need a Marxist PeerTube instance.
I agree, it really shoes the “left’s” true colors.
Except for that one video Second Thought made (which was half relevant and started to peel away: that Putin’s crazy! Don’t blame him given his audience) or that Episode of the Deprogram with Alan McLeod talking about propaganda (Hakim says fuck everybody involved and they make fun of the media for showing every four pictures a Nazi symbol). Other than that they aren’t really talking about it, but I think it’s better we don’t lose some of our strongest MLs with the overwhelming majority if libs on “left” tube.
Now like Commie Wolf was saying they are more educational (I think a better word would be agitators) and I see other ML channels that are more news oriented (Multipolarista with Ben Norton and BreakthroughNews) or a less mainstream channel like Maupin’s (thanks for getting me to watch him by the way) condemn the US and NATO’s imperialism and say Russia is justified.
I pretty much trust everything Brian Becker says. Dude is spot on pretty much 100% of the time. I just started listening to Ben Norton and he’s great as well.
I do really enjoy Hakim, Yugopnik, Second Thought (I like JT but his stuff is more basic)/The Deprogram. They don’t seem to talk about Russia that much. I get it sorta, you’ll get a huge crosshair on you if you don’t parrot the West on this. That seems to be waning though.
The corporate news is slowly confirming the things the “crazy leftists” have been saying the whole time. Like that there are Nato Spec Ops Forces/intel on the ground directing intel flows, that the sanctions are causing blowback, the list goes on. If western leftists can’t see these things are the case or they call Russia imperialist they show they don’t understand shit.
There are too many good voices out there to waste time on people who have a half-assed, Western narrative-confirming takes.
I know especially after their episode with Ben, but that’s the whole point of the podcast, and there’s enough episodes in stock for socdems/DemSocs to adapt.
I unfollowed Marxist Paul after his nonstop anti-Russia BS. I don’t see how you can do a material analysis of the situation and not come to the conclusion that Russia had no choice. Obviously it’s hard to come out and say this directly, but still.
Yeah his takes on Russia and China are insane. The mf called Iran too imperialist lmfao
Didn’t you know that every nation is an imperialist? Seriously, they sound like anarchists.
“OH!! YOU TRADE INTERNATIONALLY!!! IMPERIALIST!!!”
Red anarchists be like: yes cuba is in the camp of soviet social imperialism. We must uphold gonzalo and his assassination of peasants and feminist organizers as the correct way to mass line.
That’s an issue with a lot of western MLs. It’s very anti-intellectual and shows a lack of understanding material conditions.
Also why would I trust someone who doesn’t know what imperialism actually is?
He keeps quoting Lenins definition of imperialism without even understanding it. Lenin says that in imperialism monopolies, finance and the export of capital DOMINATE the economy. Thus, Russia and Iran arent imperialist. Marxist Paul says that if monopolies, finance or export of capital exist, then its imperialism, which would make most countries worldwide imperialist lmfao
Dude is a 🤡
I think you are right. Too many people who call themselves “Marxists” are really only disaffected liberals. This conflict is showing these people up, and that’s a good thing.
All of them are either dodging around it, avoiding the issue, or state the truth but wont shut up about the problems in the west is social progressivism or speak to things in a fairly alienating way.
Anyway. Ive pretty much concluded that ML social progressive antiimperialism is just a thing that doesnt exist because REASONS. 🤷🤦
Take what you think is useful and ignore all their triangulating bullshit.
I am just OVER even the “pro Russian” voices always qualify their support by saying that what Russia doing is bad or should not be done.
It is very much a similar situation. A war is an extrem Situation it is impossible to believe anyone or know anything for sure. The propaganda machines of both sides get turned up to max. Furthermore there is of course understandable fear that people in the west now feel, they feel under thread personally which manifests in blind support for the Ukraine and NATO and cripples the ability of an objective analyses of the situation. In the first world war the patriotism and felling threatened by the other European countries let to a war euphoria. But also think about what happened than. In the end most people were disillusioned with the war and the propaganda. It produced the most revolutionary sentiment ever to exist in europe. Of course no one in the west is engaged in active combat and the economy going to shit won’t cut it. But still the propaganda gets just too ridiculous over time that a lot of people will at least become more and more disillusioned with western media which is something.
I agree that this is headed in a bad direction. I personally don’t know how to “speak out” on this issue either. People have very steadfast positions on all of this that are baked into their identity. There is little to gain in engaging in discourse because everyone will agree with the basics until things get more specific and then it is the typical orientalism that starts flowing, or a hyper-moralized geopolitics. One can of worms after another gets opened and there is simply no way to contain the chaos especially when people are basically shouting over each other.
And even if it was easy to show people the situation and how marxism can be used to understand it and move forward, rhetoric can only do so much. Self awareness doesnt guarantee anything and politcal rhetoric is changing faster than people can catch on to which gives capital a massive advantage. The police state still exists and unfortunately the empire isnt going to crumble to peices in a glorious instant but could potentially persist long enough to totally sink humanity. The Roman empire declined for like a thousand years.
Not to be a doomer, the solutions exist imo, it’s just really tough to trudge through political conversations regardless of what environment I am in. We are living in trying times where all forms of understanding the world are put to the test, making dogmas and platitudes especially toothless.
There is little to gain in engaging in discourse because everyone will agree with the basics until things get more specific and then it is the typical orientalism that starts flowing, or a hyper-moralized geopolitics.
Well put!
Does it constantly feel like you’re being concern trolled? Where you have a conversation and everyone agrees e.g. racism is bad, then you mention how capitalism is racial and we need to fight imperialism and they quickly change tune when they realise you mean things need to change for everyone if we’re to solve anything?
what’s SMO?
deleted by creator
ah ok
