• pingveno@lemmy.ml
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    2 years ago

    Address the content of the article instead of using ad hominem.

    It’s not an ad hominem attack. It’s completely justified to question how objective an account is when it’s literally propaganda. In this particular case, the envoys come from countries that need to play nice with China. They were likely given a highly limited tour. And even if they had expressed discomfort, would a CPC press release ever mention it?

    Meanwhile, your NYT article has no verifiable facts.

    They have been transparent about the general outline of who their source is, and why they do not want their identity revealed. Given that a source of that nature could be killed for that sort of leak, do you blame them?

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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      2 years ago

      Yes, it is an ad hominem attack. You’re discarding the source solely based on the fact that it comes from China. It literally states the fact that Muslim leaders toured Xinjiang and their comments about their trip. The envoys come from the vast majority of Muslim countries in the world.

      They were likely given a highly limited tour. And even if they had expressed discomfort, would a CPC press release ever mention it?

      Ah yes, all these envoys are just too dumb to understand what’s happening, it takes a white man from a country that hunts Muslims for sport to tell them what’s good for the Muslims. You ever listen to yourself?

      They have been transparent about the general outline of who their source is, and why they do not want their identity revealed. Given that a source of that nature could be killed for that sort of leak, do you blame them?

      I have a bridge to sell you, please dm. The article is literally unverifiable in any way. This is the same level of proof as the US official who was claiming that there was evidence that Russian missiles hit Poland before that story was debunked.

      You believe this article to be true solely because it fits your biases, which is precisely what this sort of propaganda hinges on. You’ve convinced yourself that China is some despotic regime without bothering to learn the first thing about the country, and now you’ll uncritically accept any propaganda that confirms your biases.

      • pingveno@lemmy.ml
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        2 years ago

        Ah yes, all these envoys are just too dumb to understand what’s happening, it takes a white man from a country that hunts Muslims for sport to tell them what’s good for the Muslims.

        I’m sure they know exactly what they’re doing, protecting their own country’s interests. I don’t for one moment think they would put the Uyghurs’ rights over the economic interests of their own country.

        The article is literally unverifiable in any way.

        So is yours, beyond “these people came to China”. Well where did they tour? Was the tour complete? Were they given unfettered access to Uyghurs that did not fear a reprisal? The article proves nothing. Meanwhile the New York Times has picked apart the document they were given. Are you saying that they are liars?

        • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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          2 years ago

          I’m sure they know exactly what they’re doing, protecting their own country’s interests. I don’t for one moment think they would put the Uyghurs’ rights over the economic interests of their own country.

          Ah yes, and NYT is not protecting US interests, but is rather genuinely concerned about Uyghurs in China. Gotcha!

          So is yours, beyond “these people came to China”.

          At the very least my article documents an actual even that happened and the reactions from real people who toured China. The fact that you can’t see the difference between them says volumes.

          Meanwhile the New York Times has picked apart the document they were given. Are you saying that they are liars?

          Yes, because NYT has a history of lying. NYT published a shitload of articles from Zenz as well and these have been thoroughly debunked. NYT is a propaganda tool. It’s frankly shocking that you don’t understand that.

          • pingveno@lemmy.ml
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            2 years ago

            At the very least my article documents an actual even that happened and the reactions from real people who toured China. The fact that you can’t see the difference between them says volumes.

            Okay, an article from a journalist who has been on the ground then. China has tight control over journalism in Xinjiang. This journalist found that his sources - both Uyghur and Han Chinese - were going silent. Other journalists report being followed, hacked, having hotel rooms searched, etc. China can paper over their actions with carefully curated tours by tame envoys all they want. It doesn’t change that they’re not acting like an innocent party.

            • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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              2 years ago

              Why don’t we look at a much more recent article from an AP journalist on the ground that failed to find any of the things western media keeps saying are happening actually happening https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-lifestyle-china-health-travel-7a6967f335f97ca868cc618ea84b98b9

              Literally all you have is FUD without any concrete evidence for the claims. Also, if there were atrocities happening in Xinjiang that western media claims are happening we’d see a huge flood of refugees, like 2.2 million refugees we see from Afghanistan where actual crimes against humanity have been committed by your country.

              On that subject, it’s pretty weird to see Americans doing hand wringing over the plight of Uyghurs when US holds 20% of world’s prison population as literal slave labor. The prisoners in US also just happen to be predominantly minorities. Even if the claims about Uyghurs were taken at face value, they pale to what’s happening in US right now. These are well documented atrocities as opposed to imagined ones.

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                2 years ago

                Did you read that article? It says the exact opposite of what you are claiming. Conditions may have changed some, but the Chinese government is still oppressive towards the Uyghur minority. And they made it very clear that they could tell Chinese officials were censoring locals.

                Also, if there were atrocities happening in Xinjiang that western media claims are happening we’d see a huge flood of refugees, like 2.2 million refugees we see from Afghanistan where actual crimes against humanity have been committed by your country.

                This would seem to explain it. China is preventing them from leaving, and when they do manage to then China pressures other countries to return them. No such pressure existed in Afghanistan.

                These are well documented atrocities as opposed to imagined ones.

                They’re well documented because the US is an open society with a free press and organizations that concern themselves with the overuse of prisons. Government agents stalking journalists reporting on the prison system would be considered a scandal, not the norm.

                • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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                  2 years ago

                  Did you read that article? It says the exact opposite of what you are claiming. Conditions may have changed some, but the Chinese government is still oppressive towards the Uyghur minority.

                  It actually doesn’t say the exact opposite. When you read the actual facts that the journalist observes, as opposed to the spin, they do not find any of the oppression they’re looking for.

                  And they made it very clear that they could tell Chinese officials were censoring locals.

                  No, they claimed that without providing any actual evidence for that happening. It’s like you don’t understand how to separate facts from opinions.

                  This would seem to explain it. China is preventing them from leaving, and when they do manage to then China pressures other countries to return them. No such pressure existed in Afghanistan.

                  Refugees would be going to all the neighbouring countries across the border from Xinjiang. Only a tiny minority of refugees goes to US from Afghanistan. They flood to the countries around Afghanistan.

                  They’re well documented because the US is an open society with a free press and organizations that concern themselves with the overuse of prisons. Government agents stalking journalists reporting on the prison system would be considered a scandal, not the norm.

                  LMFAO imagine genuinely believing that.

                  • pingveno@lemmy.ml
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                    2 years ago

                    When you read the actual facts that the journalist observes, as opposed to the spin, they do not find any of the oppression they’re looking for.

                    No, they claimed that without providing any actual evidence for that happening. It’s like you don’t understand how to separate facts from opinions.

                    They noticed someone talking freely the first time, then the person being talked to by the men trailing the journalists, then the person they spoke to made a zipping motion across their mouth. It’s not spin, it’s being perceptive.

                    Refugees would be going to all the neighbouring countries across the border from Xinjiang.

                    Their movements are tightly monitored and controlled. They are not allowed to travel. Afghans were always able to travel, even if some travel could be dangerous.

                    LMFAO imagine genuinely believing that.

                    Are you incapable of thinking a single positive thing about US society? Yes, we have a free press, and there has been plenty of criticism and coverage of the criminal justice system.