Glad people saw through the lies opponents were spewing. Ohio hasn’t had many blue victories, but I’m glad this was one.
Plus, recreational marijuana is passing as well. Sadly, that’s a statute and not amendment, so the dickheads in the legislature will probably fuck with it.
Ohio has had two blue victories this year alone! We aren’t a deep red state, we are simply gerrymandered all to hell. The map was even declared illegal in the courts, and our dear government kept using the illegal maps anyways!
If the Republicans can ignore the laws why don’t we just start ignoring their laws too. They want to shut down the government? Fucking ignore the crazy assholes. Simply refuse to lets a minority opinion dictate anything.
If the Republicans can ignore the laws why don’t we just start ignoring their laws too.
Because the government has a monopoly on force, and you will get arrested and put in jail.
I wasn’t referring to my bullshit…I’m referring to their bullshit attempts to hold the country hostage…just ignore their theatrical bullshit and pay bills. These fucks only care about debt when it isn’t a Republican president, nothing they say at this point is valid and deserving of consideration.
From 1980 Ohio went Reagan twice, Bush once, Clinton twice, Bush twice, Obama twice, and Trump twice.
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The result from this vote tells me that Ohio isn’t red out of pure population ideology but because of unfair voting districts.
It’s more complicated than that. Gerrymandering doesn’t affect state-level votes like governor or president.
I think what this reveals more is that there are a non-trivial amount of voters who generally support Republicans but who will support abortion rights when asked specifically about them, even if they wouldn’t otherwise vote for a Democrat.
Just wait until you dig into the absolute fuckery the Ohio GOP has pulled to in order to keep those districts unfair.
Ohio used to be widely known as a swing state, even with the fucked up gerrymandering. It’s been pretty solidly red since Trump was in office, but historically Ohio was pretty purple before that.
Gerrymandering doesn’t impact statewide races, only house races. They still went for Trump and elected a Republican senator. They also have a Republican governor.
Ok, but I said before Trump was in office, Ohio was historically pretty purple. In the 50 years before Trump, Ohio voted for the Democratic presidential candidate 5 times, and the Republican candidate 5 times. In the same time frame, the state has had 3 Democratic governors to 4 Republican. The state has largely been split between the two parties for a vast majority of it’s history.
They don’t care what people want.
they care about what a fascistic minority wants that could help them get into power
More than anything, when will they realize that the game is up? We know they don’t actually care about children. We know they just want to make women second class citizens again. We aren’t idiots
It depends on the location. Ohio isn’t really that conservative, it’s mostly lolbertarian meth towns.
That’s because Ohio is just western Connecticut.
Thank you, voters of Ohio, from a woman in Texas!!!
Gave me hope to see last night! I was so fucking stoked! I’m so happy for you Ohio!
That one person that downvoted this, I hope you stub your toe. I hope the next time you get excited about something, it falls through. I hope you get thirsty and all you can drink is Dasani.
The people who hate democracy are mad :(
Ohio won’t host your incest babies. Good on you, Ohio.
Ohio:
Well now that it’s in the Constitution we can vote MAGA again.
You think MAGA is voting for abortion? I’d like to see the numbers on that. I know some of them just want to watch everything burn but I also think most MAGA are aligned with the christo-fascists.
I think you misinterpreted what they said. They were implying the MAGA crowd may feel confident voting MAGA again now that abortion is enshrined in the constitution. Many of them may vote for all kinds of things, but abortion rights are fairly popular.
I guess I’m just not aware of how MAGAs feel about abortion. To me they’ve always seemed aligned with Christian conservatives (chrito-fasicists) in that abortion should be illegal. I could be convinced otherwise, if there was data to show it.
I think the thread here is that maybe they care about abortion, or maybe they don’t, but they very much care about winning power through elections.
And they know they’ve been on the loser side of the abortion issue. They’re ready to drop it and move on.
I’m not totally sure on the far right, but republican voters, particularly women, generally still want abortion rights protected. It’s why so many elections have been favorable to democrats lately. I’m not sure why the hell republican politicians still do things like they do with abortion and weed, for example, that Republicans generally are in favor of.
Is that really because of the MAGAs? I mean it could be. I just haven’t seen the polling that proves it. To me, once they went Trump they were all in. I just don’t see many moderates that have admitted they fucked up. Maybe that’s just human nature.
I’ve seen some realize their mistake, but yeah I think you’re right that a lot of the MAGAs don’t really care. That said, a good number probably decided to just stay home if I had to guess. I haven’t seen any data though.
I interpreted it as non-MAGA voters will stay home now
Conservatives will happily vote for the face eating leopards when they don’t even have a veneer of protection, this state level protection is great but will ultimately remove a reason to vote blue from the extremely self interested voters that don’t mind the rest of the regressive platform.
go to conservative spaces now and watch them try to walk “ABORTION IS MURDER, LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION” back to “well from the beginning our goal was only ever to return sovereignty to the states.”
they stand for nothing, and they’re getting what they deserve but not nearly enough of it
Lmao one of the lawmakers in the article is still talking about protecting innocent lives, and that “this isn’t over”. This, in case the GOP was wondering, is why they keep losing on abortion
Fr, they’re great at quietly changing their minds, but I gotta at least hope the “abortion is baby genocide” crowd is gonna have some trouble coming back from that
As expected it took only hours for the Rs in the statehouse to say they will fight the voters…yet again. Time to vote them all out at every level.
Big paternalistic authoritarian energy. “Those damn voters just don’t know what’s good for them!”
And they do the usual gaslighting and tell us we’ve been duped by people who are only looking out for themselves, which is also a projection.
And you do?
Well to be fair, they don’t like the idea of democracy and freedom so this is what they do. (shrug)
Are we sure they aren’t Democrat plants? At this point still pledging to go against abortion is begging for a repeat in 2024
Edit: I apparently needed to put a /s here haha
Sure, if youre an idiot who uses lead shavings in place of salt, you could certainly entertain the idea.
Huh. I guess I should’ve put an /s in my comment.
I completely agree haha
Ohio is not an expensive place to move to comparatively, not yet anyway. I think this gives a lot of hope and options to people living around Ohio to move there for the safety and the grass. These two laws together, despite the GOPs best efforts, make Ohio an attractive option and the states gonna see growth as people and buisness take advantage of that.
The amount of people that move simply for abortion laws is miniscule. It’s such a small part of the lives of even the people that opt for abortions, that it is of little consideration.
Marijuana on the other hand, might actually have an effect on the population because drugs are a major part of a lot of peoples lives.
Yes having your privacy and autonomy taken away, such a small part of a person’s life. Insignificant!
What are laws if not violations of autonomy and privacy?
Intelligent people actually recognise that this is not a useful distinction between prohibiting abortion and any other action.
So why can’t you?
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Ask 100 people what their reasons for moving to a specific place are, I can almost guarantee none of them will mention abortion laws. Not that they aren’t important, but abortions are relatively uncommon among the population so most people don’t even think about them
I mean, it’s a large part of the reason I want out of Texas so badly. I have never been pregnant, nor do I ever plan to be. And I have an IUD. But I don’t want my money funding a place like Texas. I don’t want my money funding any place that’s anti-woman/anti-minority/anti-LGBTQ+/anti-immigration.
I want my tax dollars and the money I spend in the local economy to go to treating human beings like human beings. Robust social programs and the like.
Tbf tho, you did say miniscule, and I can only speak for myself and my husband - so literally no one. It’s just…politics can absolutely influence where a person wants to move to if they have the capabilities of making said move.
Just give it a few more years, and your IUD will be against the law. If people aren’t wisened up or awake yet, that’ll kick em in the arse and trigger more flight to other states.
That’s exactly what I’m worried about in places like Texas/FL/MS/MO/etc etc. I’m also mid 30s so pretty damn close to being considered a “geriatric pregnancy” if I ever were to get pregnant. Hopefully that would be enough to get left alone and no one looking into me.
However, my heart is broken for all the young women who are born here, or who end up here through life’s circumstances and have no choice for their own bodies. I found out about that high school in South Texas for specifically pregnant teen girls, and I was so fucking distraught over it (well I still am). The “pregnancy crisis” centers that are legally allowed to spread misinformation. Ugh, it’s so fucking much here.
Then Bexar county voting down Prop A (which would have decriminalized abortion in San Antonio) earlier this year, and I just kinda gave up on this state.
Seems pretty crazy to me that so much was bundled into 1 prop? I imagine there’s a reason that was the case, but that really makes it easy to fight it on other grounds instead of on each individual issue. They didn’t explicitly vote down abortion, they voted down all those things.
Maybe there’s still some hope for other states if Ohio’s single purpose measure passed?
“That’s exactly what I’m worried about”
You’re worried about something only supported by a fringe group (some conservative Catholics) and legal for your entire lifetime. Keep in mind that the only opposition that the general pro-life movement has is towards abortifacients, of which IUDs are not.
Just because something is vaguely similar doesn’t mean that it is necessarily affected by a policy. Banning slavery, doesn’t mean that you can’t make your children do chores.
“The 'pregnancy crisis’s centers that are legally allowed to spread misinformation” Everyone is legally allowed to spread misinformation.
Maybe your heart wouldn’t be so broken if your head wasn’t so broken. But who am I kidding, you likely don’t actually care about this to any actionable degree, just typed out a response since the topic was broached.
It may not be the sole reason to move somewhere, but it’s often an explicit reason NOT to move somewhere
Is there evidence for this? People move primarily for job, education opportunities and existing family. Local laws don’t really factor in that much, again unless you are participating in activity that your daily life revolves around, like drugs or maybe guns if you are a real freak about them.
Look at the demographics. Red States have a lot of Red Voters moving in, but not a lot of blue voters. Blue states have a lot of Blue and Red voters coming in. This doesn’t only deal with abortion, but it’s a major concern.
Anecdotally, anyone Gen Z who isn’t a raging magat I know refuses to move to states such as texas due to the regressive abortion laws. Watch the next few years as big tech finds ways to move out of those states as they can’t attract talent.
Ex. Austin is a great city for tech. I could likely make the same salary I do in Seattle, at a lower CoL. However, due to the political climate of texas, I wouldn’t even entertain the idea of living there.
“As they can’t attract talent”
You realise industries built up around a workforce? It’s why you have complexes of related companies in regions because they poach each other’s workforces. They don’t just build a multi-million/billion dollar facility and hope that their workforce materialises out of thin air.
Tech companies like any high-skill field, built up around universities that produce the talent. Unless you think UT-Austin is suddenly going to stop producing students, why do you think that tech companies are going to abandon all their investment?
“Look at the demographics”
Why don’t you read the US Census inflow and outflow of populations between the states? (I don’t have the software to read it on my phone rn, but I seriously doubt it supports your argument, as far as I know low COL states are attracting everyone from high COL states. The low COL states are due to low market demand from being rural and just happen to be Republican).
If it were really true that “red states” only import “red voters”, then how come cities in “red” states become increasingly “blue” over time? Keep in mind that the majority of the population even in relatively rural states is in cities. If they were really just importing Republican voters, then one would expect the voting patterns to stay the same. Anecdotally, basically every state in the West Coast and the adjoining states have been flooded with Democratic voting Californians driven out by COL in the past several decades.
While not the only reason, my partner and I moved to WA from a red state so that my partner would feel safe. I also know other people that did the same. So your first point is at least slightly incorrect, if not completely. Do you have a uterus that certain state governments want control over? If not, maybe you shouldn’t speak on this.
I know literally hundreds of women were this is not the case. The fact that I can only find them on a web forum that specifically selects for people that have your viewpoint (a far-left {no you’re not mainstream Americans no matter how much you want to believe it} website with a post that specifically targets people interested in abortion), is pretty strong evidence of how little it factors in.
I know literally hundreds of women
Ah, so you don’t have a uterus. Got it!
You cannot claim to know personal opinions of hundreds of women, this is exactly why you shouldn’t speak on this subject. There’s a term for this, called Dunbar’s number. You can only really be friends with a max of around 150 people. So, are you really going to say that of all of your friends, they’re all women (or at least 101 of them, to meet your hundreds mark), and you’ve talked to them (and listened) about their feelings around abortion? You asked each person if they would feel safer in a state with abortion rights and access as opposed to one without?
Right now, it seems that you’re not a woman and you’re putting words into “hundreds” of their mouths. Exactly what right leaning people love to do.
“You cannot claim to know the opinions of hundreds of women… Dunbar’s number”
Destroyed by a weakly defined social science term, that bears little application to the topic. One can easily exceed Dunbar’s number over a period of time spanning decades. If I ask hundreds of women privately their reason for moving, laws, specifically ones about abortion are going to play very little role. The primary reasons for moving are economic and familial, you know things that actually effect day-to-day life.
Additionally if the opinions of multiple women contradicted mine (as a woman), would I really have a logical basis for asserting that my opinion is representative of the group of women?
“right-leaning” You’re confusing criticism of a circle-jerk of unfounded nonsense as being right-leaning. If that’s the case then why don’t you want to be right-leaning?
That’s a lot of words to say you know nothing about what women actually care about. You seem to have latched onto Dunbar’s number and not the fact that you’re putting words in women’s mouths. Also, I highly doubt you’ve exceeded Dunbar’s number, ever. I’m sure that you speaking for women (when you aren’t one, clearly) really makes them feel safe enough for them to all share their most vulnerable thoughts with you.
Also, you originally claimed that people care about MJ because they use it in their daily lives. Do you really think that access to reproductive healthcare is not a daily thought for many women?
+8% in interest for a company if they offer abortion access.
https://msmagazine.com/2023/01/23/employer-benefits-state-abortion-laws-young-women-employees/
More than half of young women are making living and work decisions based on abortion access. 44% are thinking of moving or have moved to a state where abortion is protected. 10% have already declined jobs in states where abortion would be illegal. Oh, and 57% of women and 48% of men said their companies and leaders weren’t doing enough to ensure abortion access.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2023/04/21/abortion-ban-states-obgyn-residency-applications/
10.5% drop in applications.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/22/abortion-idaho-women-rights-healthcare
Which has led to some towns having no obgyn clinics at all.
In short, the data sharply disagrees with your survey of the hundreds of women you know. Perhaps you should consider that the people you know aren’t terribly representative of the US as a whole, and you’re drawing terribly incorrect conclusions because of it. I think Ohio, the latest in a long list of Blue and Red states keeping abortion legal, suggests you’re completely incorrect on mainstream Americans. A commanding majority from Kansas to Ohio to Kentucky want to live somewhere where abortion is legal.
The only question left is if you’re going to continue to plug your ears or if you’re actually going to accept that being against abortion puts you outside of mainstream Americans. I’m strongly suspect it’s the former, so I’ll preemptively wish you a pleasant time in finding out just how wrong you are. Repeatedly.
The data is asking leading questions. The mere fact that one has declined a job in a certain state does not follow that the reason was specific to a single law.
Additionally you realise that Ob-Gyn services far more than abortion. If they are shutting down, it’s primarily due to aging populations in small communities, not abortion laws.
FYI if you want to throw around statistics it helps to have some formal education in statistics that way you atleast know what kind of conclusions the data actually supports. Hint, it’s rarely what uneducated journalists think.
I love that you brought up formal education regarding stats; you must be an expert since you kept track of the opinions and personal thoughts of “hundreds of women” you know.
You’ve been told of personal experiences, and you’ve also been given multiple studies above. Are you really so insecure that you cannot be wrong even when presented with clear, cut and dry evidence? Is that insecurity what’s causing you to belittle the pain and turmoil that women in red states experience every day?
I find it very interesting that you had no problem seeing the logic behind MJ legalization, but when women came into the picture you suddenly weren’t so sure.
By the way, your “I know literally hundreds of women” line has still got it. Makes me giggle every time I read it.
It’s simply a matter of selecting relevant statistics.
“Belittle the pain and turmoil”
Bit melodramatic aren’t we? People experience “pain and turmoil”, regardless of what state they live in. I love how pro-choice people have to portray abortion restrictions as modern-day Auschwitz, because they solely want to permit the active killing of human beings for any reason. That’s all this entire conversation is about, it’s not about accuracy it’s about the fact that it doesn’t endorse the narrative that abortion is critical to women’s lives. That’s the only reason anyone here has a problem with it.
“Makes me giggle everytime”
If you haven’t held personal conversations with hundreds of people in your lifetime, you’re just socially inept. This isn’t a difficult task, and nowhere did I claim this happened simultaneously. I was merely referencing the fact that out of hundreds of people I’ve interacted with, only a handful referenced marijuana laws (basically just hardcore potheads) and zero abortion laws as the primary reasons for moving. I even threw in gun laws, even though I’ve never actually known someone who primarily moved because of them.
drugs are a major part of a lot of peoples lives
marijuana is and has always been effectively legal. think of how many people you know that smoke every day. how many of them have actually been busted? the laws against marijuana were never about stopping people from smoking marijuana. they’re about making something tons of people do illegal so that they can:
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investigate, harass and disrupt inconvenient people whenever they want to for suspicion of doing something the majority of people do
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tack on additional charges and jailtime in order to funnel more profits to private prisons and the major orgs that contract out prison slave labor
“Marijuana is and has already been effectively legal”
Absolutely. The war on drugs failed, not because of abuses of police or that it’s impossible to ban products. But because Americans love drugs and has always culturally permitted it’s use. The reason why countries like Singapore don’t have drug problems is cultural suppression, in addition to draconian laws.
The rest of your comment is irrelevant conspiracism. Prison labor and private facilities comprise zilch to the US economy (billions sounds large until you realize that the US economy is on the order of 20 trillion), infact many people are released specifically because it is cheaper.
Marijuana use additionally increased with cultural acceptance, it wasn’t illegalised when it would actually have been an effective way to hassle innocents.
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#AbortionIsHealthcare. ✊
FUCK! YES! FINALLY SOME GOOD NEWS!! Holy cow, that was a desert, waiting.
Hell Yes. To quote Jay " …me and Bob are pro choice. A woman’s body is her own fucking business!"
Rare Ohio W
Honestly, if Ohio let the people directly decide more often it would be a lot less rare.
Is it prohibitively difficult to get a ballot measure on the ballot? Or is it only every so many elections can they do this?
Great news!
The universe isn’t this nice. I’m waiting for the bad news.
Off Lemmy I’ve already been assured by several dickhead accelerationists that this is actually bad, because it’s against the rules to successfully progress a liberal democracy when the One Right Way to effect change is revolution only. They’d rather people suffer more if it meant an end to capitalism, revolting “ends justify the means” mentality.
Those people have such a lust for violence and don’t care that the poor people they claim to be fighting for will be the ones who suffer most
“Why won’t you die so I can avenge you‽”
But when I think about it, those poor people are absolutely fucked right now. By achieving small victories like these they get nothing. We have luxurious lifestyles, while the poorest don’t even eat.
Fuck capitalism. House and feed everyone first, then play pretend with numbers.
Fuck capitalism, I agree. But I don’t see where a county with any other economic system was ever chomping at the bit to sacrifice to feed the poorest in the world either.
Be angry, but realistic. Don’t fetishize revolutions. Revolutions generally kill quite a lot of people, the vast majority of whom are not members of the ruling class
Ok, so can we agree to do those things without killing anyone who disagrees and then spending a few decades “protecting the revolution” with a “dictatorship of the whatever?”
Subjugating people is a terrible way to liberate them. Full stop. If you want socialism, then the only viable and sustainable path is convincing people to vote for socialism. Which is why tankie extremists are socialism’s worst enemy.
Who said anything about force?
We can just spend resources to build sustainable habitats and farms for everyone.
Where is the subjugation?
Idk seems like referendums work so we don’t need all that other stuff.
Yes… let the incrementalism flow through you.
They’re certainly not bulletproof. It’s obviously been a hot sec at this point, but Proposition 8 in California of all places codified marriage as exclusively being between a man and a woman when it was legalized by the California Supreme Court.
Continuing in California, Proposition 13, which froze property taxes so long as ownership is maintained but allows that frozen rate to be transferred to family, has essentially created a situation where the state is subsidizing homeowners that are already substantially wealthier than the average person while also legally enshrining a class of people who pay much less tax by virtue of inheritable status. The perverse economic effects are rather obvious.
Referendums can be great, but voters are also generally going to be inherently selfish. Local control of zoning and housing policy, just to shit on California one more time, has resulted in a massive housing crisis. There are situations where it’s really important for lawmakers to choose the path that inconveniences everyone a little bit but solves a problem over the path where no individual is directly inconvenienced while the root problem only gets much worse. In Game Theory terms, referendums are very bad at handling prisoner’s dilemma style situations, since voters will generally pursue their own immediate interests.
It’s because these people don’t actually care about socialism or equality. You can tell, because they don’t ever talk about those things. It’s all’s fantasizing about murdering their neighbors and enslaving workers under their system of autocracy in the name of their socialist God.
So you want to usher in a socialist/communist society in the pursuit of freedom, egalitarianism, human progress, and the elimination of pointless suffering?
“Nah, I just want power to hurt people I don’t like, and the USSR had cool aesthetics.” – tankies.
“Off lemmy”
How about trying off the Internet entirely.
You’re in a bubble, most people in the US couldn’t correctly define capitalism, let alone have such a strong agenda or opinion about it.
“off the internet”
How about trying off reality entirely.
You’re in a bubble, most people in the astral plane couldn’t correctly define the internet, let alone have such a strong agenda or opinion about it.
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The weed issue also passed but the legislature may just ignore the will of the people. I don’t think they can do anything about this though.
nope, as soon as it ‘officially’ passes (how many recounts you think? would you place wagers on an over-under of five?) it’s part of the Ohio constitution. they’d have to run a second ammendment through to vacate it. and that won’t happen.
All they gotta do is keep ruining education, encourage the religious right to have more babies (you aren’t a good family if you don’t got 10 kid!!), wait a few decades and try again.
In a few decades no one is gonna be able to afford 2 kids, never mind 10…
That’s why they’re gutting child labor laws. Get those kids a working instead of doing homework! Keep em dumb, and now you can have another.
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Too bad. They legalized weed in Ohio too.
What’s going on in Ohio lately? Did everyone stop taking their crazy pills?
The bulk of us don’t take crazy pills, we’re just gerrymandered to high hell (I mean read the signs, we literally say it on our freeways…). All it really takes to see that is that whenever something goes to the polls that isn’t tied to districts we tend to lean more towards personal freedom.
Pills? Those Toledo-stealing jerks are naturally like that.
Lots of good people out that way, glad their voices are finally beating out the others. All the good people I’ve met there didn’t hesitate to tell me about how many not so good people there are there too though.
Fucking well done Ohio.
